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Subject: Re: Speed vs. Knowledge Debate To Be Decided Soon

Author: stuart taylor

Date: 17:08:25 02/12/00

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On February 11, 2000 at 13:34:14, Albert Silver wrote:

>On February 11, 2000 at 09:08:28, stuart taylor wrote:
>
>>On February 11, 2000 at 08:47:46, Albert Silver wrote:
>>
>>>On February 11, 2000 at 08:34:16, Vincent Vega wrote:
>>>
>>>>I understand that somebody is working on confirming whether there is a linear
>>>>ELO increase with ply depth.  If this indeed proves to be the case (as earlier
>>>>results show), the slow searchers will get the same benefit with the increase of
>>>>processor speed as the fast searchers.  On the other hand, if there is a falloff
>>>>somewhere, watch out for CSTAL, etc.  They will rule in a couple years.
>>>
>>>I don't see how anyone could confirm a linear ELO increase with ply depth unless
>>>a large amount of games were played with limited depths against human players.
>>>Unless you are talking about computer-computer games where the effect is far
>>>more decisive.
>>>
>>
>>What's the rationale behind the possibility that greater depth may not
>>necesarily result in better decisions over the board?
>> Do you mean brute force vs. selective search, or great depth branching off a
>>very limited ply count? (which is like very selective search with good pruning)
>>S.Taylor
>
>My tactics are most certainly limited by the moves I choose to analyze and how
>deeply I choose to analyze them, but that's just the tactics. My positional
>play, my plans, my understanding of the position will not be changed because I
>saw a ply deeper. If I realize that in position X an exchange of the queens and
>one pair of rooks will result in a possibly won endgame, I don't see how seeing
>even 10 extra plies will make up for that. That's knowledge, and a ply here or a
>ply there won't outweigh it. Look at that famous position of Rebel where it had
>its bishop locked in. Do you think that it will suddenly see the problem because
>it is calculating a bit deeper?
>
>                                    Albert Silver

  I think that re. the famous position with Rebel and his bishop trapped in
could possibly be different with a ply or two deeper. Of course it must be
combined with knowledge to be applied to what it is seeing. But I beleive
that other programs would avoid such things because it will sense the lack
of power in the resulting position even without knowing the reason for it.
  But besides that, I didn't realize that the original poster was speaking
about plies vs. knowledge. He said "but if there is a falloff somewhere"etc.
That sounds like something else.
  By the way, I would be interested to know if anyone agrees with my rational
above.
  Stuart Taylor



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