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Subject: Re: How much time advantage needed? (curious again)

Author: blass uri

Date: 03:22:49 02/15/00

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On February 15, 2000 at 04:52:58, Bas Hamstra wrote:

>On February 14, 2000 at 12:00:54, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On February 14, 2000 at 11:18:21, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>
>>>So far experiments indicate that 2x speed advantage is pretty significant. But
>>>exactlly how much? Why don't you run a match of 100 games? My bet is the faster
>>>one wins 75%.
>>
>>75% is 200 elo difference and there is no 200 elo difference by being twice
>>faster.
>>
>>If you want 75% you probably need 8x faster hardware.
>>>
>>>For 99% certaincy you probably need at least 10x faster hardware, I think.
>>
>>I think that maybe no hardware advantage will help to get 99% because of the
>>fact that there are games when the result is decided by book and not by the
>>program.
>>
>>>Because chess is partly a game of luck and in 100 games the faster engine might
>>>easiliy get killed once because of a rotten openingline. Unless the speed
>>>difference is enormous.
>>
>>I do not see how speed difference can help if the end of the book line is a
>>simple win for one side or a simple draw.
>
>If it is not a ridiculous book, there are no simple wins. You can get a better
>position, right out of book. But to *win* that superior position is quite
>something else. Especially against 2x faster hardware. A friend of mine comes
>99% of the time out of opening with serious advantage, using Crafty with his own
>backsolved and handtuned superbook. But some advantage is not enough, when you
>play against 4x faster hardware. And the game is long...

I agree that some advantage is not enough but I saw cases when program came with
evaluation of more than 3 pawns advantage out of book.

These cases are rare but happen.
There are more cases when I saw a forced draw out of book.

If I assume that in 1 out of 100 games there is a forced win and that in 2 out
of 100 games there is a forced draw then 99:1 is impossible

Uri




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