Author: Dan Ellwein
Date: 08:49:41 02/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On February 15, 2000 at 10:02:40, blass uri wrote: >On February 15, 2000 at 09:25:02, Côme wrote: > >>On February 15, 2000 at 08:53:27, blass uri wrote: >> >>>On February 15, 2000 at 07:16:12, Côme wrote: >>> >>>>On February 15, 2000 at 06:16:27, blass uri wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 15, 2000 at 05:51:31, stuart taylor wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I wonder if it will eventually be discovered that chess is not absolute, >>>>>>and that a human will therefore always be able to beat a machine by playing >>>>>>exactly against the weaker points of that particular machines style-everything >>>>>>else being to perfection? >>>>>> Maybe chess isn't an exacting art-absolutely? >>>>>> Stuart Taylor >>>>> >>>>>If the machine has no weak points then it is impossible to play exactly against >>>>>the weaker points of the machine and there is no reason to assume that it is >>>>>impossible to do a machine with no weak points. >>>>> >>>>>Today there is no machine with no weaks points and there is no machine that can >>>>>pass the turing test(every machine can do positional mistakes that I do not >>>>>expect humans even with 1800 elo rating to do) but it is practically impossible >>>>>for most of the humans to play exactly against the weaker points of the machine >>>>>because you cannot go practically to the positions that the machine does not >>>>>understand. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>Hello Uri, >>>>I don't agree with you Uri ! >>>>It's not so hard to play against weaks points of machine ! >>>>Best Regards >>>>Alexandre Côme >>> >>>Hello Alexandre, >>>If it is not so hard then what is the reason that these machines can beat more >>>than 99% of the humans with rating above 1600? >>> >>>There are positions when the machines are stupid and humans knows about them(for >>>example programs do not understand fortress positions when one side has a big >>>material advantage) but you usually cannot go for these position in >>>a practical game. >>> >>>Uri >> >>Hello Uri, >>Ok you must be stronger than 1600 to play against weaks points of machines. :-) >>There are really a lot of positions when the machines are stupid and IMHO >>machines will not be never stronger than humans. >>Best Regards >>Alexandre Côme > >I am stronger than 1600 and my rating is 2025 but even players with 2300 get >less than 50% against the machines. > >If it was easy to play against the weak points of the machines they could win >the machines. > >I agree that there are a lot of positions when the machines are stupid but >I do not agree that machines will never be stronger than humans in these >positions. > >Uri chess is 'absolute' in the sense that you have a finite amount of space - 64 squares... and a finite amount of material - 32 pieces... finite times finite (usually) equals finite... computers have not (yet) reached this finite-ness...
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