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Subject: Re: Crafty for Psion/Palm ??

Author: Andreas Stabel

Date: 09:11:09 02/16/00

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On February 16, 2000 at 12:01:51, Eugene Nalimov wrote:

>On February 16, 2000 at 03:16:04, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2000 at 02:54:16, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On February 16, 2000 at 02:47:16, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 16, 2000 at 02:12:21, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 16, 2000 at 00:26:19, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 15, 2000 at 22:45:28, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On February 15, 2000 at 20:42:43, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>MIPS VR4121 is a 64 bit CPU according to NEC. Look at
>>>>>>>>http://www.nec.com/Semiconductors/categories/679/981008.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You're right... Hmmm... I wonder what the "64 bit" measures. Maybe memory
>>>>>>>interface? Because it seems pretty silly to have a full-blown 64-bit embedded
>>>>>>>processor, when your desktop machine is still 32-bit...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wait a minute. The VR4121 processor claims pin-to-pin compatibility with the
>>>>>>VR4111. And the VR4111 is a "false 64 bits" processor. Operations can be done on
>>>>>>64 bits internally, but the data bus size is 16 or 32 bits. That is, there is a
>>>>>>serious bottleneck between the processor and the memory when it comes to 64 bits
>>>>>>values.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm not even sure that this processor really supports clean 64 bits operations.
>>>>>>All the docs I have mention 16 and 32 bits long instructions. How do you perform
>>>>>>a move immediate with a 64 bits value if your instruction length is limited to
>>>>>>32 bits?
>>>>>
>>>>>IBM/360, as well as IBM/370, also have no instruction "move immediate 32-bit
>>>>>value"; if you want to load literal that is longer than 12 bits, you have to
>>>>>load it from memory. Nevertheless it is true 32-bit processor.
>>>>>
>>>>>At that MIPS processor, loading/storing 64-bit values can be slower than 32-bit
>>>>>values - but total impact on performance would be small enough. Small size of
>>>>>cache is much more important, but I believe Crafty would perform as it's running
>>>>>on P90-120.
>>>>
>>>>Windows 95  Pentium P5-120  159.4  Drystone MIPS
>>>>
>>>>Win CE      VR4121  131mhz  174    Drystone MIPS
>>>>
>>>>So your prediction is not bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>Do you have the Drystone MIPS for the DragonBall EZ? Motorola claims 2.7 for his
>>>16.58MHz processor, but I wonder if it has been checked by somebody else.
>>>
>>>Is there a web site with a compilation of Drystone MIPS for a bunch of popular
>>>processors?
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Eugene
>>>>>
>>>>>>And don't count on the 8Kb internal L1 data cache to store all the data needed
>>>>>>by Crafty...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A bitboard program looks like a poor choice for this architecture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Christophe
>>
>>I went to the following site for the Pentium statistic:
>>
>>http://performance.netlib.org/performance/html/dhrystone.data.col0.html
>>
>>This site does not seem to include statistics for HPC/PPC type CPUs. The VR141
>>statistic came from the NEC site. Given manufacturers penchant for exagerated
>>claims, it must be taken with a grain of salt. Therefore, "rough" equivalence
>>with the P5-120 seems reasonable.
>
>Dhrystone is executed entirely from the cache, plus it have very small data set
>that fits into cache, too. So, for more typical programs performance will
>degragate - so I am stuck with my 'p90-p120-level performance estimate'.
>
>Eugene

It is pretty simple to completely optimize Dhrystone away, so the Dhrystone
speed may be chosen to be whatever the compiler maker whishes. I've been
working with compilers, so I know :)

Regards
Andreas stabel



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