Author: blass uri
Date: 07:29:00 02/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On February 17, 2000 at 09:37:07, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On February 16, 2000 at 22:52:50, odell hall wrote: > >>On February 16, 2000 at 22:09:36, Tina Long wrote: >> >>>On February 16, 2000 at 22:00:11, odell hall wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I still think that your overplaying the importance of time! Sure I will >>>>agree that there is a huge difference between 5 0 chess or even 30 0 chess, >>>>compared with 40\2. But I don't think the difference is so great between 60 0 >>>>and 40/2. One hour is more than enough time for a Grandmaster to apply his so >>>>called- Superior Chess knowledge, Many grandmasters calculate with incredible >>>>speed and are much less likely to be beat on a tactical shot. If you notice the >>>>three games that deep junior has played, he has won none of the games on >>>>Cheapo's or due to petty oversights by the GM's. A few Grandmasters even >>>>commented on Deep Junior Positional play. I find it hard to see how you can >>>>suggest that the grandmasters will rise in strength by 300 rating points going >>>>from 60 0 to 40/2. We are all chess players here, and I think most of us >>>>realize that there is not much difference between 60 0 and 40/2, although I do >>>>concede that there is a difference but I would say maybe a 50 point rating >>>>increase is more reasonable, rather than the 300+ points that you suggest. BTW I >>>>would appreciate an intelligent response devoid of insults or sarcastic remarks. >>>> >>>>Thanks >>>> >>>> >>>Absolute rubbish!, >>> >>>In 40/120, an IM or a GM will sit for 10 or 20 minutes on a single move at the >>>vital point of the game. There are regularly moves that take 5-10 minutes. >>> >>>These are the very important moves, the moves that make it a 40/120 Tournament >>>game by an IM or GM. The IM or GM cannot afford that sort of time consumption >>>in Game in 60. >>> >>>While what you say is correct for most moves of a game, it is completely wrong >>>for the most important moves. >>> >>>Tina Long >> >> >> Unfortunately you did not address the most important point of my post which is >>the Question: How much of a rating increase do humans Gain going from 60 0 to >>40/2? According to Larry kaufman human are 65 points stronger going from 30\0 >>to 40/2, I expect 60 0 to 40/2 the increase would be even less. The fact that >>some grandmasters often spend 20 minutes on a given move doesn't neccessarily >>prove that the move will be stronger, often grandmasters spend a hour on a move >>to produce a blunder!! I have seen this often. Length does not always mean >>Quality. Annand for instance has been known to spend less than 60 minutes for >>an entire 40/2 game. Since you believe what I say is "Rubbish" Why don't you >>please prove it and supply some concrete evidence which shows a 300pt increase >>going from 60 0 to 40/2?? These type of dogmatic statements are taken for >>granted as fact because some self-proclaimed know it all has said so, without >>any proof. Please show me the proof!! > > >You are overlooking the obvious. If the computer and GM are 'equal' after the >first 30 moves or so, then they suddenly find themselves playing a game/30 >time control since 30 minutes are gone. If the GM is ahead by a pawn after move >60, he finds himself trying to play game/5 against the computer. The longer >the game, the shorter the time control. In 40/2 that doesn't happen, as there >is a secondary time control. There is no doubt that GM's are better in 40/2 relative to G/60 but the question is how much better. I also do not think that there is a 300 pt increase I believe that GM's can do better at G/60. I believe that GM's can train with computers and improve their game(for example by doing exercises of trying to avoid mistakes of humans against computers) but I wonder how many of them really do it. I know for example that yona kosashvili has a full time job as a doctor and does not have time to be a proffesional player. The problem is that there is not enough money in chess I believe that we are going to see GM's play better if the prizes are going to be 10 times bigger. Uri
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