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Subject: Re: After this tournament Deep Junior level is without question at GM

Author: blass uri

Date: 07:29:00 02/17/00

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On February 17, 2000 at 09:37:07, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On February 16, 2000 at 22:52:50, odell hall wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2000 at 22:09:36, Tina Long wrote:
>>
>>>On February 16, 2000 at 22:00:11, odell hall wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>     I still think that your overplaying the importance of time! Sure I will
>>>>agree that there is a huge difference between 5 0 chess or even 30 0 chess,
>>>>compared with 40\2.  But I don't think the difference is so great between 60 0
>>>>and 40/2.  One hour is more than enough time for a Grandmaster to apply his so
>>>>called- Superior Chess knowledge, Many grandmasters calculate with incredible
>>>>speed and are much less likely to be beat on a tactical shot. If you notice the
>>>>three games that deep junior has played, he has won none of the games on
>>>>Cheapo's or due to petty oversights by the GM's. A few Grandmasters even
>>>>commented on Deep Junior Positional play. I find it hard to see how you can
>>>>suggest that the grandmasters will rise in strength by 300 rating points going
>>>>from 60 0 to 40/2.  We are all chess players here, and I think most of us
>>>>realize that there is not much difference between 60 0 and 40/2, although I do
>>>>concede that there is a difference but I would say maybe a 50 point rating
>>>>increase is more reasonable, rather than the 300+ points that you suggest. BTW I
>>>>would appreciate an intelligent response devoid of insults or sarcastic remarks.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Absolute rubbish!,
>>>
>>>In 40/120, an IM or a GM will sit for 10 or 20 minutes on a single move at the
>>>vital point of the game.  There are regularly moves that take 5-10 minutes.
>>>
>>>These are the very important moves, the moves that make it a 40/120 Tournament
>>>game by an IM or GM.  The IM or GM cannot afford that sort of time consumption
>>>in Game in 60.
>>>
>>>While what you say is correct for most moves of a game, it is completely wrong
>>>for the most important moves.
>>>
>>>Tina Long
>>
>>
>>  Unfortunately you did not address the most important point of my post which is
>>the Question: How much of a rating increase do humans Gain going from 60 0 to
>>40/2?  According to Larry kaufman human are 65 points stronger going from 30\0
>>to 40/2, I expect 60 0 to 40/2 the increase would be even less.  The fact that
>>some grandmasters often spend 20 minutes on a given move doesn't neccessarily
>>prove that the move will be stronger, often grandmasters spend a hour on a move
>>to produce a blunder!! I have seen this often. Length does not always mean
>>Quality.  Annand for instance has been known to spend less than 60 minutes for
>>an entire 40/2 game. Since you believe what I say is "Rubbish" Why don't you
>>please prove it and supply some concrete evidence which shows a 300pt increase
>>going from 60 0 to 40/2?? These type of dogmatic statements are taken for
>>granted as fact because some self-proclaimed know it all has said so, without
>>any proof. Please show me the proof!!
>
>
>You are overlooking the obvious.  If the computer and GM are 'equal' after the
>first 30 moves or so, then they suddenly find themselves playing a game/30
>time control since 30 minutes are gone.  If the GM is ahead by a pawn after move
>60, he finds himself trying to play game/5 against the computer.  The longer
>the game, the shorter the time control.  In 40/2 that doesn't happen, as there
>is a secondary time control.

There is no doubt that GM's are better in 40/2 relative to G/60 but the question
is how much better.

I also do not think that there is a 300 pt increase

I believe that GM's can do better at G/60.
I believe that GM's can train with computers and improve their game(for example
by doing exercises of trying to avoid mistakes of humans against computers) but
I wonder how many of them really do it.

I know for example that yona kosashvili has a full time job as a doctor and does
not have time to be a proffesional player.

The problem is that there is not enough money in chess
I believe that we are going to see GM's play better if the prizes are going to
be 10 times bigger.

Uri



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