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Subject: Re: philosophy about "different ideas" and the outlaws of society

Author: Harald Faber

Date: 05:13:41 02/19/00

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On February 18, 2000 at 18:22:54, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>On February 18, 2000 at 14:25:23, James Robertson wrote:
>>I don't know. I have seen CSTal in three tournaments; in one it finished dead
>>last among comercial programs,
>
>which program. i remember that wiesenecker made a tournament.
>but he used the wrong style.
>the same style harald first got his 0.5-9.5 loss.
>no wonder wiesenecker got weak results.

Remember I re-played the match with 7-13.

>> in Thorsten's it is first, and in this match it
>>didn't do so well. :\
>
>shredder is too strong for cstal.
>it outsearches cstal very often. has very deep search depths. 14 15 searches.
>even deeper than fritz.

Shredder 13, Tal 7 gives Shredder an ELO+110 over Tal. It is common to add
another 70 pts for double speed, so Shredder would be approx. 180 pts stronger
than Tal. Do you agree?

BTW when Tal gets outsearched on twice as fast hardware than Shredder played,
then thee should be some changes in the program to not get outsearched.
And you can argue that Tal gets outsearched by every program, because every
other program searches faster than Tal. That is Tal's problem, not the User's.

>>The first commercial program Insomniac ever beat was CStal 2.03 (on FICS;
>>Insomniac actual had weaker hardware).
>
>And ? cstal is a kind of program that can win against all, and can lose against
>all.

But loses more often than wins. However, almost all strong amateur programs can
win against the others, also commercials.
Did you notice that Tal only won one single game against Shredder in my rematch?

>when you relate results (very important because you relate quantity)
>you must make sure that you don't relate apples with bananas.
>
>people testing on 2x k6-2/450 will get weaker results for cstal than people
>testing on 2x k6-3/450.

In this case wouldn't it be clever to sell Tal only to people with an AMD-K6-3?
This is the one and only argument I read from you claiming that this would solve
all problems (=make Tal perform better). We compared the speed of your K6-3 and
my Athlon, for Tal they are almost identical, so what is the reason why Tal got
only 35%?

>be careful when you relate quantities that the things you relate are really
>same conditions.

Hä? You are not satisfied when games are played on 2x K6-2-450 but obviously
these ARE EQUAl conditions.

>harald was right to play with fast machines. but he was IMO wrong to
>give shredder4 a 200. 2 x athlon500 would be better IMO.

Sure it would have been better.

>we would be more able to relate... but now we can only guess.
>again.

Come on Thorsten, you cannot seriously say that Tal would perform better if Tal
played vs Shredder4/Athlon500 and not vs Shredder4/K6-200 when even against
Shredder on the slow machine Tal clearly lost. Look at the games.




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