Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 08:24:04 02/19/00
Go up one level in this thread
On February 19, 2000 at 10:59:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On February 19, 2000 at 07:55:47, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>
>>On February 19, 2000 at 07:28:30, Martin wrote:
>>
>>>On February 18, 2000 at 16:58:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 18, 2000 at 09:32:07, Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 18, 2000 at 08:16:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then answer this: Had Kasparov been unable to connect against Adams, what
>>>>>>would have happened? OK. Suppose it wasn't Kasparov. Suppose it was some
>>>>>>lesser GM against Adams. And _he_ couldn't connect because his ISP had been
>>>>>>attacked by one of these denial-of-service attacks? And after you answer both
>>>>>>of those, why is your answer different for Deep Junior, which is _obviously_
>>>>>>will be. I think _that_ is the thing most of us simply "don't get"...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Would you like to be handled the same way as a machine?" Maybe this is the
>>>>>question 'most of us' should ask themselves...
>>>>>
>>>>>Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In a tournament where the machine and I pay the same entry fee? Yes.
>>>
>>>Hmm, so the money dictates the attitude? Maybe I'm just too romantic...
>>
>>When you ask "Would you like to be handled the same way as a machine?", you
>>forget that Amir and Shay are persons too.
>>
>>A less emotional point: a participant, man or machine, is a participant with
>>equal rights. I have little doubts that the forced forfeit of Deep Junior has
>>distorted, even ruined, the Grand Prix.
>>
>>Enrique
>
>
>There is another point. I have been doing computer chess over 30 years. I
>have spent a huge amount of time/effort doing so. _every_ programmer that has
>written a program, whether it is a rank beginner or the world champion, has
>spent a huge amount of time. I am sure that _I_ have spent as much time on
>computer chess development as most GMs have spent studying chess. I suspect
>others have as well. Does _that_ effort mean nothing compared to the effort
>a GM has expended? I don't think so. Writing a program as strong as Junior
>is not easy. It takes a lot of effort and time. Just like becoming the number
>2 or 3 player in the world from a human perspective.
>
>Somehow the 'programmers' are getting 'lost' in this issue, and it has become
>"the hard-working GM opposed to the mass-produced computer". That isn't the
>way it is at all...
Absolutely. I guess that corporativist attitudes had a lot to do with the
forfeiting of Deep Junior. Adams is an elite GM in an elite GM tournament. They
need each other, they stick to each other. Junior is nobody and has been treated
as such ("ninguneado", in Spanish). We see corporativist behavior every other
day among professors, doctors, judges, you name it. It is just not fair.
Enrique
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