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Subject: Re: Five games CSTal 2.03 - Junior 6a

Author: Bertil Eklund

Date: 23:31:47 02/24/00

Go up one level in this thread


On February 25, 2000 at 01:46:17, blass uri wrote:

>On February 25, 2000 at 00:45:38, Harald Faber wrote:
>
>>On February 24, 2000 at 04:21:01, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On February 24, 2000 at 00:52:19, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 23, 2000 at 14:38:43, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>i don't really understand what harald wants to show. we were the same opinion
>>>>>that
>>>>>
>>>>>a) shredder4
>>>>>b) tiger12
>>>>>c) junior6a
>>>>>
>>>>>are the strongest programs in the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>>harald tested shredder4 against cstal.
>>>>>i said: no wonder that cstal loses, shredder is the strongest program in the
>>>>>moment.
>>>>>
>>>>>harald said: it would also lose to others.
>>>>>
>>>>>i said: it would lose to other that are as strong as shredder4 is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And YOU wrote that the others would compete with Tal, that means that all
>>>>others, Junior, Tiger etc., are clearly weaker than Shredder.
>>>
>>>
>>>Thorsten wrote that today tiger and Junior6a are the only programs that can
>>>compete with tal.
>>>
>>>I remember that he wrote it before your match of Junior6a against tal and not
>>>after it.
>>
>>
>>Correct, NOW he says so. Right after the match vs Shredder he wrote s.th.
>>different, look in the CCC archive if you want to read it.
>
>I think that you missed his post
>see
>http://www.icdchess.com/ccc/message.html?98279
>
>You are right that he did not mention tiger12 and Junior6 in another post you
>responded to.
>
>but he explained that tiger12 and now Junior6a are the only programs that can
>stand against Shredder.
>>
>>
>>>>Thorsten, you always complain about anything in my matches. Hardware not fast
>>>>enough, then not equal, wrong opponent, played with (Windows!-)autoplayer. I
>>>>guess I can go on playing Tal vs several opponents, each time Tal loses (and
>>>>that will be more often than you would like to see) you complain about anything.
>>>>
>>>>Final offer: Choose an opponent of your wish (that supports autoplayer!) to play
>>>>on the K6-200 vs Tal on Athlon.
>>
>>
>>Notice that Thorsten did not answer to my last offer.
>>
>>
>>>>And then swear to God that you won't complain if Tal loses. :-)
>>>
>>>If there is a difference between your results and thorsten's results than
>>>it is interesting to understand the reason for this difference.
>>>I do not think that the reason is that one of you cheat.
>>>It is possible that there is some differnece between your tal and thorsten's tal
>>
>>
>>It shouldn't since we both use the CD-version plus the 2.03 update.
>>
>>
>>>I suggest to check if thorsten's tal can reproduce the moves that your tal did
>>>in the games against Junior6a.
>>>If thorsten find a move that his tal cannot reproduce
>>>Thorsten can post the relevant position and you can check manually not all the
>>>game but only the moves that thorsten's tal cannnot reproduce.
>>>
>>>If you do not find the problem after cheking these games then I suggest that you
>>>do your games against another opponent.
>>
>>
>>:-)
>>What about my games with Junior6 vs Tal?
>>
>>
>>>I do not want to read again new complains(for example tal did not use the right
>>>opening book).
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Me too, that is why I made my final offer. If Thorsten doesn't make a serious
>>suggestion (anyway I admit I am tired testing Tal as I always get very similar
>>results), I'll go on testing Tiger/Athlon vs Shredder/K6, at the moment 3-1 (+2
>>=2 -0) in favour of Tiger. You see it IS possible to win against Shredder. ;-)
>
>Of course.
>
>Thorsten also agree that tiger can win shredder with the faster hardware.
>He explained that tiger and Junior6a are the only programs that can stand
>against shredder.
>
>I do not think that he is right about it(enriaue's games proved that in 40/40
>other programs like Fritz,Nimzo could get better results than shredder and I do
>not believe that there is a big difference between 40/40 and 120/40 and if there
>was a problem with the autoplayer the programmer of shredder could discover what
>is the problem) but I do not think that thorsten cheats in his games.
>
>Maybe the difference is because of the fact that thorsten is using different
>hardware that help more shredder and also it is possible that thorsten's
>impression is wrong.
>
>Uri

Hi!

I don't think he is cheating but I found it interesting that he have published
two games CM6000-CSTal, from two different occasions with the same opening-line.
16 moves I think. Both resulted in wins for Tal. I have played over 140
tournament games with Tiger with no doubles except against Junior6.

Bertil



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