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Subject: Re: Five games CSTal 2.03 - Junior 6a

Author: blass uri

Date: 00:03:17 02/25/00

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On February 25, 2000 at 02:31:47, Bertil Eklund wrote:

>On February 25, 2000 at 01:46:17, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On February 25, 2000 at 00:45:38, Harald Faber wrote:
>>
>>>On February 24, 2000 at 04:21:01, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 24, 2000 at 00:52:19, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 23, 2000 at 14:38:43, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>i don't really understand what harald wants to show. we were the same opinion
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>a) shredder4
>>>>>>b) tiger12
>>>>>>c) junior6a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>are the strongest programs in the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>harald tested shredder4 against cstal.
>>>>>>i said: no wonder that cstal loses, shredder is the strongest program in the
>>>>>>moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>harald said: it would also lose to others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i said: it would lose to other that are as strong as shredder4 is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And YOU wrote that the others would compete with Tal, that means that all
>>>>>others, Junior, Tiger etc., are clearly weaker than Shredder.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thorsten wrote that today tiger and Junior6a are the only programs that can
>>>>compete with tal.
>>>>
>>>>I remember that he wrote it before your match of Junior6a against tal and not
>>>>after it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Correct, NOW he says so. Right after the match vs Shredder he wrote s.th.
>>>different, look in the CCC archive if you want to read it.
>>
>>I think that you missed his post
>>see
>>http://www.icdchess.com/ccc/message.html?98279
>>
>>You are right that he did not mention tiger12 and Junior6 in another post you
>>responded to.
>>
>>but he explained that tiger12 and now Junior6a are the only programs that can
>>stand against Shredder.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Thorsten, you always complain about anything in my matches. Hardware not fast
>>>>>enough, then not equal, wrong opponent, played with (Windows!-)autoplayer. I
>>>>>guess I can go on playing Tal vs several opponents, each time Tal loses (and
>>>>>that will be more often than you would like to see) you complain about anything.
>>>>>
>>>>>Final offer: Choose an opponent of your wish (that supports autoplayer!) to play
>>>>>on the K6-200 vs Tal on Athlon.
>>>
>>>
>>>Notice that Thorsten did not answer to my last offer.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>And then swear to God that you won't complain if Tal loses. :-)
>>>>
>>>>If there is a difference between your results and thorsten's results than
>>>>it is interesting to understand the reason for this difference.
>>>>I do not think that the reason is that one of you cheat.
>>>>It is possible that there is some differnece between your tal and thorsten's tal
>>>
>>>
>>>It shouldn't since we both use the CD-version plus the 2.03 update.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I suggest to check if thorsten's tal can reproduce the moves that your tal did
>>>>in the games against Junior6a.
>>>>If thorsten find a move that his tal cannot reproduce
>>>>Thorsten can post the relevant position and you can check manually not all the
>>>>game but only the moves that thorsten's tal cannnot reproduce.
>>>>
>>>>If you do not find the problem after cheking these games then I suggest that you
>>>>do your games against another opponent.
>>>
>>>
>>>:-)
>>>What about my games with Junior6 vs Tal?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I do not want to read again new complains(for example tal did not use the right
>>>>opening book).
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Me too, that is why I made my final offer. If Thorsten doesn't make a serious
>>>suggestion (anyway I admit I am tired testing Tal as I always get very similar
>>>results), I'll go on testing Tiger/Athlon vs Shredder/K6, at the moment 3-1 (+2
>>>=2 -0) in favour of Tiger. You see it IS possible to win against Shredder. ;-)
>>
>>Of course.
>>
>>Thorsten also agree that tiger can win shredder with the faster hardware.
>>He explained that tiger and Junior6a are the only programs that can stand
>>against shredder.
>>
>>I do not think that he is right about it(enriaue's games proved that in 40/40
>>other programs like Fritz,Nimzo could get better results than shredder and I do
>>not believe that there is a big difference between 40/40 and 120/40 and if there
>>was a problem with the autoplayer the programmer of shredder could discover what
>>is the problem) but I do not think that thorsten cheats in his games.
>>
>>Maybe the difference is because of the fact that thorsten is using different
>>hardware that help more shredder and also it is possible that thorsten's
>>impression is wrong.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Hi!
>
>I don't think he is cheating but I found it interesting that he have published
>two games CM6000-CSTal, from two different occasions with the same opening-line.
>16 moves I think. Both resulted in wins for Tal. I have played over 140
>tournament games with Tiger with no doubles except against Junior6.
>
>Bertil

chessmaster6000 has no learning function so you can expect more doubles with
chessmaster6000.

I read about the game CM6000-tal from his millenium tournament.
I do not know about another game with the same opening line of tal against
chessmaster6000

When did he post the second game?

Uri



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