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Subject: Re: Analyzing Your Games With Software

Author: Melvin S. Schwartz

Date: 11:26:02 02/28/00

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On February 27, 2000 at 23:00:40, Laurence Chen wrote:

>On February 27, 2000 at 20:01:43, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>
>>On February 27, 2000 at 13:50:21, Laurence Chen wrote:
>>
>>>On February 27, 2000 at 12:36:23, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 26, 2000 at 18:01:31, Pete Galati wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 26, 2000 at 14:53:52, Melvin S. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am interested in what others think is the best program to analyze their games
>>>>>>against other humans. It would be helpful if you could explain the reason for
>>>>>>your choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All opinions will be appreciated. Those that do not respond will be forgiven,
>>>>>>though not held in the highest esteem. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>Mel
>>>>>
>>>>>I like annotating games with Crafty because for me it's the easiest way to be
>>>>>very specific about how I want the game annotated.  Downsides to this?  It's not
>>>>>a gui proceedure, more like a dos command line type of thing, for example, type
>>>>>annotate in Crafty, and it will display how to go about the ccommand:
>>>>>
>>>>>Crafty v17.8
>>>>>
>>>>>White(1): annotate
>>>>>usage: annotate <file> <color> <moves> <margin> <time> [nmoves]
>>>>>White(1):
>>>>>
>>>>>So if I entered: annotate mygame.pgn w 10 .75 120"   What Crafty would do would
>>>>>be to annotate the file "mygame.pgn", only the white side of the board (w), it
>>>>>would start it's annotations at move 10, to a margin of 3/4 pawn difference
>>>>>between the best move Crafty calculated and the move made in the game, and it
>>>>>would calculate each move for 120 seconds (2 minutes of course).
>>>>>
>>>>>To me, this is better than doing it with an interfaced program.  Here's a game I
>>>>>annotated that way http://members.xoom.com/avochess/lostgame.htm  Someone on
>>>>>usenet pointed out that Crafty missed a mate, could be, I'm not sure.  I
>>>>>annotated that game for 4 minutes a move on my slow computer.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, to _me_, Crafty is the best choice, but if you need an interface to get the
>>>>>job done, then it's the worst choice.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pete
>>>>
>>>>Hello Pete,
>>>>
>>>>I don't have Crafty but do have a number of commercial programs. I am wondering
>>>>if Shredder 4, Junior 6, or some other commercial program offer something more
>>>>than what I presently have: Rebel-Tiger, Fritz 5.32, Hiarcs 7.32, Rebel-Century,
>>>>Chessmaster 7000, and CSTal 2.03. I would like to use just one program to
>>>>analyze my games - ideal situation - but perhaps that would not give a thorough
>>>>analyzation. At most I could see using two programs but beyond that it would be
>>>>to time consuming.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Mel
>>>What do you consider "ideal situation"?
>>******************************************************************************
>>By that I mean one program that is superior in all aspects to the others. If you
>>read the other reply to my original post, then you would see there are people
>>using even more than two programs to analyze their games.
>>**************************************************************************
>>  Any of the chess engines you already
>>>have can do a very good job in finding missed tactical oportunities or mistakes.
>>> Unless you are looking for an engine which will annotate positional mistakes or
>>>ideas, then you will have to wait for a very very very long time in the future.
>>>Because all chess engine of today excel in tactics, but long strategical
>>>planning is an area which human players are far superior to chess engines, and
>>>the only solution to this problem is to hire a chess coach, perhaps a
>>>International Master is sufficient if one cannot afford a Grandmaster.
>>>Laurence
>>**********************
>>:-)
>Superior in what sense ??? All the top chess engines perform well in tactics.
>Some may be able to see tactics better than others, but that is all an illusion.
>Just because engine A is able to solve test suite ### and engine B is not able
>to solve test suite &&& does not prove that A is better than B, because for sure
>there is a &&& position which engine A fails to solve and B is able to solve. I
>think it boils down to personal taste and style which a chess engine has to
>offer. My favorite engine is Junior/Deep Junior, not because it is number one in
>the SSDF. It is because of the playing style of the chess engine. It is a
>playing style which is close to my playing style. It is aggressive, and likes to
>play quiet moves to improve the position.  Of course, not hyper-aggressive as
>Fritz. Besides I don't use the chess engines to annotate games, I personally
>find this type of exercise too passive, and not very productive because I cannot
>learn much out of it. I prefer to use the analysis mode of the chess engine, too
>bad that Chessmaster still doesn't have this feature, and go move by move and
>selecting different moves from the generated variations. I prefer to flex my
>chess muscles rather than read a displayed/printed page of chess annotation by a
>chess engine. Hope this helps.
>Laurence

Well, Laurence, it really hasn't helped all that much. You state above the
preference for using a chess engine for analysis. That is exactly what I have
stated! The question I put forth was for people to submit their preference
(chess engine) for analyzing their games. I wanted to hear preferences and the
reason for that preference. By the way, I don't see anything wrong with looking
at "a printed page of chess annotation" to use for examination. Just my opinion.
As for flexing chess muscles, do you want to play a game? High Noon. Tomorrow.
FICS. Game in two seconds. No barbells or dumbells allowed. :-))

As for "supieority



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