Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 11:20:18 04/12/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 12, 2000 at 03:25:51, stuart taylor wrote:
>On April 12, 2000 at 00:25:16, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On April 11, 2000 at 22:35:32, stuart taylor wrote:
>>
>>>On April 10, 2000 at 14:06:56, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 10, 2000 at 10:48:58, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 09, 2000 at 21:56:22, robert blackwell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well lads im not here for a fight. Its seems that it gets very ugly here when
>>>>>>someone states and opinion base on personally findings. I have played maybe 100
>>>>>>games total between chess Tiger and Fritz. Tiger seems stronger.You all ask for
>>>>>>me to post, yet i bet you never even played over the games i posted. Game two is
>>>>>>a brilliant game, Tiger's ability to Activate its pieces is incredible. Also it
>>>>>>played themes of chess, not just try to open the position, and crash threw with
>>>>>>tactical shots. For instance the trapping of the knight on h4. What impressed me
>>>>>>is the fact tiger plays and understands the position, perhaps weak players cant
>>>>>>grasp this. Too bad! No one every questioned Enrique Irazoqui results. His games
>>>>>>showed tiger 100 elo pointa above the other programs!. Funny how we forget!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't. I was the only or one of the few who did not follow the Tiger hype. I
>>>>>always wanted to SEE. Now I have seen. My opinion:
>>>>>Tiger is VERY strong, no doubt. As I wrote, in the same group with Shredder4,
>>>>>Junior6, probably Fritz6 and probably Hiarcs7.32 and Nimzo7.32, not to forget
>>>>>Rebel.
>>>>>
>>>>>But Tiger is NOT superior, neither a bit nor clearly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What you seem to forget is the fact that the Chess Tiger 12.0 engine has been
>>>>"frozen" on October 3rd, 1999, that is exactly the day it has been sent to the
>>>>SSDF.
>>>>
>>>>So Chess Tiger 12.0 is now six months old. Half a year.
>>>>
>>>>At the time it has been released, it was above the competition. Not by much, but
>>>>it was. Intensive testing by the SSDF confirmed this.
>>>>
>>>>People that have tested it AT THAT TIME, have found that it was probably the
>>>>strongest engine around, and they told us so. I wouldn't call this "hype". And I
>>>>didn't ask them to make advertisement for my engine.
>>>>
>>>>They have done what they are still doing: they have played games, found that one
>>>>program was apparently stronger, and they told us.
>>>>
>>>>What happened since that time? Two major chess programs have been released, and
>>>>updated and NOW they have been tested.
>>>>
>>>>Notice that Enrique told us that Fritz6a was above the competition as soon as he
>>>>had enough data. Is this hype for Fritz6a? Djordge did the same.
>>>>
>>>>It happens that the 2 newly released chess programs seem to be at the level, or
>>>>above, than Chess Tiger.
>>>>
>>>>What it tells us is that computer chess is in constant EVOLUTION. Since October
>>>>3rd 1999, things have changed. Chess Tiger has evolved too, but of course the
>>>>improvement has not been rated yet...
>>>>
>>>>I suspect Hiarcs has evolved too, and it will be interesting to see where the
>>>>new version stands. And so on...
>>>>
>>>>The fact that all the chess programmers are able to improve their programs over
>>>>and over again, so that no program can stay for very long "clearly above the
>>>>competition" still amazes me.
>>>>
>>>>Isn't it fascinating and interesting, from the user's point of view?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>Not very fascinating and interesting, atleast not for me, but annoying.
>>>I would like to see a quicker evolution/or one keeping ahead for a longer time.
>>> Are you planning to or able to release a new version around now, which will be
>>>ahead of the competition now?
>>> I have decided that I would buy the best there is by end of May 2000, and
>>>stick with it through thick and thin. I decided that a long time ago-and the
>>>time is soon up.
>>> Thanks,
>>> S.Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>>Even if I was able today to publish a version of Chess Tiger 100 elo points
>>above Fritz6a, you wouldn't have the proof that it is the best program around
>>(by SSDF list or personal tests) until the end of may.
>>
>>So you can simply buy Fritz6a right now. And you could even stop read CCC as
>>well. It is not going to be funny, in a few months, to read that the program
>>you've just bought is now obsolete.
>>
>>It was a pleasure to meet you. Goodbye. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>I mean something which looks now like it might be ahead-after thorough testing.
>I'm thinking of getting about 3 of the best-which combined together
>will represent the best overall knowledge available in computerized chess,
>and then it will probably be quite some time before all that becomes below the
>competition anyway.
> I suppose what you are hinting to me is right, but I find the years are
>rolling by, and instead of thinking about chess itself, and other things
>in life, I'm still just waiting for the ideal thing.
> I'm not that old yet, but if I were 90, so would my biggest wish be to die
>waiting for a computerized world champion to pit my wits against?
> The same with cpus and the competition between intel and amd. If you want
>something which will still be good 5 years after purchase, then I think now
>is not the time to buy a new computer. First wait until the competition
>slows down, in about 2-3 years,then buy a 5000mhz "sledgehammer" of amd, and
>use it for many years more. But if you need it now, it's not worth putting
>your heart to it.
> I feel a bit embarrased to click the mouse and send this now. It's a bit
>exposing. But never mind. But I support and appreciate all your work. I'm
>writing my personal feelings as a consumer, and perhaps a strange one at
>that.
>regards,
>S.Taylor
I think that if you are as addicted to CCC as we all are, you'll not just buy 3
programs.
I expect that you'll not stop reading CCC, and next year you'll buy 3 new chess
programs.
It is true that buying several chess programs is a good idea. I think all the
top commercial programs have their own unique playing style, and by buying just
one you would miss a big part of the enjoyment.
Chess programming evolves, and I'm sure you don't want to miss the future
developments!
Christophe
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