Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 00:17:23 04/28/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 27, 2000 at 22:14:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On April 27, 2000 at 20:57:38, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On April 27, 2000 at 18:36:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 27, 2000 at 16:32:49, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 27, 2000 at 08:02:52, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 27, 2000 at 04:52:24, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 27, 2000 at 04:18:17, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 27, 2000 at 03:57:00, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 27, 2000 at 02:24:25, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On April 25, 2000 at 16:05:30, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 03:31:54, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On April 21, 2000 at 05:25:40, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 21, 2000 at 05:24:13, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 21, 2000 at 01:53:37, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 20, 2000 at 11:30:44, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On April 20, 2000 at 11:24:07, Ernst A. Heinz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Stefan,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Will you compete with DT anyway?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Probably not -- we have not yet found time to tune "DarkThought"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for the x86 platform and I strongly doubt that we can come up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>with a competitive PC version until August.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=Ernst=
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That's bad news.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stefan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I won't be there either. It is expensive to travel to Europe every year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bruce
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you kidding?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>London is a nice play to go!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stefan
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Of course it is a nice PLACE to go :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Stefan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I am not going this year. My most significant regret is not getting to visit
>>>>>>>>>>>with people, including you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>But I'm tired of travelling huge distances and getting no travel support. The
>>>>>>>>>>>ICCA seems to have little interest in promoting computer chess outside of
>>>>>>>>>>>Europe, and I'm tired of being the only American competitor who attends each
>>>>>>>>>>>event in person.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>bruce
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Is the no travel support issue already clear?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Stefan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>bruce
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Did you already ask for travel support for this event?
>>>>>>>>I am afraid you won't get any, but there might be a chance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Stefan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi guys!
>>>>>>>A few weeks ago I emailed David Levy with a bunch of questions. I asked him if
>>>>>>>there would be any travel support and he said no. Apparently the entry form is
>>>>>>>due out in early May so we should have the full details then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I also asked about the rule requiring the program's author to be present and was
>>>>>>>told that this rule will be strictly enforced this time. All in all I'm not
>>>>>>>optimistic that I'll have a program competing, but you never know...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>cheers,
>>>>>>>Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What a pity. That means Rebel and Tiger can't compete. What is wrong with
>>>>>>a representative?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed
>>>>>
>>>>>The intent of the rule is good. But the result is bad because of the
>>>>>situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>It would be nice to have all programmers present. No doubt. But it is not
>>>>>just a bad idea, it is a _stupid_ idea when every year this is held in Europe,
>>>>>and people outside of europe are expected to either pay their own way, or else
>>>>>not attend. The latter is the result. And the tournament will mean a lot less
>>>>>as a result.
>>>>>
>>>>>ACM events ran for 25 years without this rule. If _all_ the events are going
>>>>>to be held in Europe, someone ought to think long and strong about just how
>>>>>poor this rule is. I (and others) could get operators, probably. I can't take
>>>>>off a week plus during classes, although I could probably make part of the event
>>>>>if it didn't cost so much.
>>>>>
>>>>>As it is, I won't make it at all. And that suggests that the policy is flawed.
>>>>
>>>>I think the rule is fine and I believe it. I wouldn't go even if the rule were
>>>>trashed. If people are going to travel thousands of miles to go to tournaments,
>>>>they shouldn't end up sitting across the table from people who don't have
>>>>anything to do with the program that they are operating.
>>>>
>>>>bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't think it is a big problem. We had lots of cases where program authors
>>>couldn't attend for the entire tournament. But they could (and did) show up for
>>>some of the games, usually the last few rounds. But even if they don't, enough
>>>authors showed up to make it worthwhile.
>>>
>>>Now they get no authors _and_ no programs from a fairly large sect of computer
>>>chess programmers..
>>>
>>>The question is, is the event supposed to find the best program??? Or is it
>>>supposed to find the best program with an author that can afford to attend? I
>>>claim this second question is uninteresting to the extreme.
>>
>>
>>
>>The event is supposed to find the guy that:
>>* can afford to attend
>>* can find the best possible hardware
>>* is the most lucky
>>* does not care to give away $1000 if he is a so called "professional"
>>
>>
>>The strength of his program is a completely secondary matter.
>>
>>Which is why I proposed in the last century to have an uniform platform event
>>and a larger number of rounds.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>This year you get your wish, partially. It is uniform platform. Of course,
>that culls a few good programs that are designed for other architectures. IE
>10 years ago chessmachine would be disqualified. Now Dark Thought can't play.
>And given the choice I would want an alpha because crafty is designed around
>that architecture. I don't have to have a kryo-alpha, nor even a black-lab
>alpha... just an alpha for those of us wanting an alpha.
>
>hardware does play a role.
I know this issue is hard to solve, but as I said before it is not unreasonnable
to chose the PC as the platform, from time to time, as it represents such a
large majority of potential users of chess programs.
Anyway, I don't think I can attend the event in person, so I'm probably going to
miss the uniform platform event I have been dreaming of...
>And I have been against the commercial vs amateur nonsense since the first
>wmccc I played in. It made no sense then. It makes less sense now.
That's right.
Christophe
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