Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Missing Simple Tactics

Author: Dan Ellwein

Date: 06:41:13 05/03/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 03, 2000 at 01:21:58, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On May 03, 2000 at 00:17:28, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On May 02, 2000 at 07:38:08, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On May 02, 2000 at 06:26:34, Michael Neish wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>
>>>>I wonder whether anyone could help me, or offer any suggestions as to the
>>>>following little problem.
>>>>
>>>>The program I'm writing needs two ply to see what I think should take only one
>>>>ply.
>>>>
>>>>In the position below White wins material by the blindingly obvious Bg5.
>>>>
>>>>[D]6k1/pp1nrppp/5rb1/P2P4/5BP1/5P2/4BK1P/R3R3 b - -
>>>>
>>>>However, if I set my program to look only one ply deep, it doesn't see this
>>>>move, and prefers Bb5.  At two ply, though, it sees it all right.  I think one
>>>>ply should be enough, as the Qsearch ought to take care of the ensuing
>>>>exchanges.  Indeed, other programs I have tried manage to find it easily enough
>>>>in one ply.
>>>>
>>>>This might be a trivial position, but if it's taking longer than it should to
>>>>see these tactics then I could be wasting plies in my search.
>>>>
>>>>By the way, in case anyone asks, I'm not doing anything unusual in Qsearch.  I
>>>>call Eval() first, return if it fails high, otherwise set alpha to the Eval()
>>>>score if it's greater than alpha, and then search through the available
>>>>captures.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for your help.
>>>>
>>>>Mike.
>>>
>>>Rebel gives a bonus of 1.00 in eval for Bg5 assuming one of those rooks
>>>get lost. A higher bonus is quite risky as the opponent often has an
>>>escape. The effect in search is minor. It was effective in the days of
>>>programs running at 5 Mhz hiting 5-6 plies only. Nowadays I would not
>>>spend time on such (processor) time consuming cases.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>
>>I do not understand why not.
>>
>>If there is a long line when the final position is one of these cases
>>you can have a better evaluation.
>>
>>Usually long lines are not forced so the effect may be better positional moves
>>and not tactics.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Your point sounds very plausible but isn't true. Search solves these
>kind of cases and you only end up with some speed loss. Running a
>set of 500 positions only gave a few (non-important) different moves.
>
>That is one of the crazy things of CC, you have to go from scratch on
>your code every 3-4 years as many things that were good then are
>out-dated now because of increasing hardware (Mhz & Ram).
>
>A few days ago I wrote something about 1992 and one instruction making
>Rebel (The ChessMachine then) stronger. It made me think about and as
>a result I improved that piece of code with a net result of 28% speed
>gain. The change would not have been a good idea in 1992.
>
>Search is a strange animal and hard to understand for the human brain.
>It is full of unexpected surprises. I estimate that after 20 years
>wrestling with search I only understand 5% (or so) of search.
>
>Ed


Ed...

sounds like there might be a correlation here between search and the human
brain...

in that we 'only' use about 5% of our brain...

and...

after many years of performing brute force/selective search techniques (going
back to Shannon - 1950's), we only understand about 5% of what's really going
on...

well... any-way...

just a thought

:)

PilgrimDan



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.