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Subject: Re: Clarification if Cheating could be excluded from Computerchess

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 17:11:26 05/09/00

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On May 09, 2000 at 08:55:46, Hans Gerber wrote:

>On May 08, 2000 at 23:32:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>
>>No... because the solution doesn't exist, which means that the logs are just
>>pieces of paper that won't prove cheating, nor will they disprove cheating.
>>As such, their importance is really only in giving us some insight into what
>>DB could do, things that many didn't know (depth, etc).
>>
>>As far as Hsu, you are on the wrong person.  Hsu didn't have _any_ control
>>at the match.  He designed and assembled the hardware.  He (and others) wrote
>>the software.  But legal and marketing folks took control because they realized
>>how valuable the P/R was going to be, particularly if DB won, but even if it
>>lost.
>>
>
>Must I repeat that for me Hsu is responsible because he "made" the hard- and
>software, with others of course? My point was that a scientist had had the
>obligation to reflect the mentioned problems and to find solutions. If you are
>convinced that logfiles had no meaning for the question of cheating, then I said
>that Hsu should have found a form of protocol that could give us the possibility
>to examin that.
>
>
>>
>>But if the computer is non-deterministic in its behavior, _how_ will you ever
>>prove whether it played some particular move or not?  And if you can't, you just
>>lost any chance of using the logs (which Kasparov wanted) to prove that it
>>either did, or did not, cheat.
>
>I disagree. Non-deterministic doesn't mean that the development couldn't be
>analysed and controlled that led to a certain move. If the machine played a
>different move also the files should look different.
>
>
>>You should look at a tournament played last year.  In a well-known scandal,
>>someone used a computer program to whack GM players like flies.  He was a
>>2300 player himself I believe.  He had a TPR over 2600.  So yes, humans will
>>cheat, given the chance.
>>
>>As far as "on its own" how would you confirm that?  How to be sure that there
>>is no 'access'?  IE no rf link, no magnetic link, no laser link, no sonic link,
>>no optical link, etc...
>
>As I said elsewhere comparately weak players would try to cheat but not the best
>players. I don't want to discuss thechnical difficulties without being an
>expert. My point was that in principle such a control should be possible.


My point is that preventing 'crime' is _impossible_. Otherwise, after a couple
of thousand years, banks would no longer be robbed.  Web sites wouldn't be
broken into.  Computers wouldn't be vandalized.

There are some things you can _not_ prevent.



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