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Subject: Re: The details of a psychowar (DB team vs Kasparov in the NY Times)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:20:34 05/12/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 12, 2000 at 06:16:13, Hans Gerber wrote:

>On May 11, 2000 at 22:13:49, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 11, 2000 at 19:33:42, Hans Gerber wrote:
>>
>>>On May 11, 2000 at 11:23:49, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 11, 2000 at 09:56:31, Hans Gerber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 11, 2000 at 09:05:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 11, 2000 at 08:50:42, Hans Gerber wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What is the actual adress for a webpage with the data after game two in 1997? I
>>>>>>>must refresh my memory. Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I dont remember the precise URL.  Go to www.ibm.com, the look for the
>>>>>>'deep blue' link.  that will get you to the right place.  You will find
>>>>>>a complete set of game logs for game 1 thru game 6.  If you can't find them,
>>>>>>let me know and I can email them to you.  I have them all here on my machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes I found it on the IBM page. But what I had been searching for wasn't there.
>>>>>The transcript of the press conference after game two. You have said that
>>>>>Kasparov made his remark about cheating right after game _two_, and in public. I
>>>>>wanted to read that one. Also in the live commentary scripts of game two and
>>>>>three I can't find a reference to the facts of your statement. Could we find a
>>>>>clarification for that question? If it had happened like this, wouldn't it be
>>>>>discussed in the live commentaries?
>>>>
>>>>Possibly. The live commentators were being paid by IBM, and IBM might easily
>>>>have asked them to avoid touching on this subject. I found a reference in the NY
>>>>Times piece after game 3 though:
>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/050797weber.html
>>>>
>>>>                                        Albert Silver
>>>
>>>I read that right now. But from that article you can't conclude that K. had
>>>talked about "cheating" on a press conference after game two (as R. Hyatt said).
>>>I tried to refresh my memory but I couldn't find any data yet. Is it true that
>>>there was a press conference after game two at all?
>>
>>
>>Yes, there was a meeting after each round.  I am not sure Kasparov attended
>>them all.  But after each round, the players and press met in the media center.
>>I wasn't there personally, so I can't say who attended which meetings, and I
>>don't plan on bugging Hsu to ask for recollections about what happened.
>>
>>Clearly by round 3 he suggested something was wrong.  Little doubt about how
>>to interpret the comment Albert gave you a link to.  A direct accusation...
>
>Two aspects: 1) the exact moment of his question and of the denial of the
>prints, 2) the difference between events in reality and the reality of articles
>in newspapers about "events". Let us analyse before we make our conclusions.
>
>You hypostated a direct connection between his _public_ question (which in
>itself is accusation and insult in your view) and the (therefore justified)
>_reaction_ of the DB team and IBM. Up to this moment I don't have any proof that
>Kasparov made any (public) accusations after game two.

back up a minute.  I didn't "directly state" any connection between the claim
of cheating and their denial of access to the printouts".  I said "I think they
were completely justified in turning down his request for several reasons."  One
of them being that I wouldn't give _anything_ to someone that accused me of
cheating.  IBM's official reason was _always_ that they didn't think it
reasonable to give Kasparov a "view inside DB" by providing a complete log of
the games. They did provide the output for the two moves he questions.

Don't mix up what the DB team said vs what I said.  It was always _me_ that
said "I wouldn't have given him a thing after he accused me of cheating."  They
simply said "no".  And "no" came from Tan.  Not _anybody_ else.  Murray didn't
make the decision.  He didn't make the announcement.  He might have commented
_after_ the decision was public.  But neither he nor Hsu had _any_ control over
things at that point.  It was Tan and higher-ups.



>
>The article by B. Weber allows the ref went into the public with Kasparov's
>request. Thus the request was stamped as impolite and based on a kind of
>confusion. But _if_ it was made in discretion.


He made it in public at a press conference.  How could that be "in descretion"?




> and in the belief of friendly
>terms of talking? At the time of this newspaper's article, the request was not
>even known in public. So, the article documented a turning point, initiated by
>the DB team and IBM, in person of M. Campell, the second man behind Hsu.


I don't know where this comes from, but it is wrong, as I mentioned above.
Murray didn't initiate anything with respect to the logs.


 Perhaps
>you are right that the later official statement was given by Tan, but in this
>article there is a clear presence of the DB team to be seen...


Tan _was_ the project director.  He was directly Hsu's boss, and he was the
head of the DB team.



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