Author: Marc van Hal
Date: 13:08:18 09/05/00
Go up one level in this thread
On September 05, 2000 at 13:48:39, Uri Blass wrote:
>On September 05, 2000 at 13:12:36, pavel wrote:
>
>>On September 05, 2000 at 12:30:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2000 at 12:04:50, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>
>>>>One day someone may write a book about the sociology of computer chess. Well,
>>>>maybe the topic is not interesting enough for a book, but at least an article
>>>>could be fascinating. A few paragraphs should relate to beta-testing and the
>>>>relationship between CC freaks and programmers. Fernando: are you interested?
>>>>
>>>>Months ago, Uri posted that he expected to be paid for his collaboration with
>>>>the development of chess programs. It made me smile, because beta-testing is
>>>>supposed to be a privilege for the tester, although I never quite understood why
>>>>it works this way. But it does. From one day to the next, a freak may be
>>>>promoted to the "in" circle, improve his status to the imaginary rank of expert
>>>>and get the ensuing ego-booster, but he has to pay a price. I have seen private
>>>>emails from beta-testers published without permission when it was commercially
>>>>convenient; beta-testers demoted as no-team members; beta-testers forced to
>>>>write commercially useful stuff for the honor of spending X (when X tends to
>>>>very many) hours hunting for bugs and checking the engine. Etc. It would seem a
>>>>matter of common sense to assume, as Uri did, that collaborating in the
>>>>improvement of a commercial product is a paid job, but in computer chess it is
>>>>the other way round, even if the tester doesn't pay with money but in species.
>>>
>>>I want to say that I know that programmers do not earn much from their program
>>>so I do not think that beta testers should earn a lot of money from their job
>>>but I think that it is fair to get something from it(even if it is only 0.1$ per
>>>hour of testing).
>>>
>>>A programmer can decide to give all the beta testers together 20% of the money
>>>that the programmer earns from his(her) program in the next year
>>>(the programmer can decide to give part of them more money if they are more
>>>important and give more productive information).
>>>
>>>It may be a good deal for the programmer because the programmer can get better
>>>beta testers or even the same beta testers who work only for his(her) program
>>>and not for other programs and if these better beta testers are the difference
>>>between being number 1 in the ssdf and being number 2 both sides can earn money
>>>from this deal.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>and how would you know how much hours the beta tester is actually spending on
>>the testing? how would you calculate it with minimum wage?
>
>I think that the question is not the number of hours but the question how much
>they help to the programmer.
>
>Suppose the programmer has 20 beta testers.
>
>The programmer can decide to give everyone of them at least 1/2% and the
>decision if to give part of them more money will be decided later based on the
>information that they give.
>
>
>>
>>I personally believe it is a previlege for the beta tester, just like enrique
>>said.
>
>1)Part of the beta testers do not think like you and more beta testers can give
>more information(I can test the commercial or the freeware programs and do not
>need to be a beta tester in order to test programs).
>
>I was a beta tester of Junior in the past because Junior is from Isarel and I
>wanted to support it but I decided to stop doing it.
>
>2)If the beta tester know that (s)he earn part of the money (s)he will be more
>motivated to give ideas in order to help the program.
>
>I did not tell many of my ideas and I think that part of them can be productive
>for chess programs.
>
>Here is one simple example that I posted here about time allocation:
>
>Programs usually not follow the rule use more time when the time control is
>slower and are going to use more time when the time control is 2 hours/game and
>less time when the time control is 2 hours/120 moves.
>
>3)The beta tester is going to avoid testing other programs(there are beta
>testers who test more than one program) and will have more time to test one
>program.
>
>Uri
After I saw yestereday that I did get no response from Schroder BV I was realy
disapointed
And wrote him about the fact that I was suprised he simply neglacted my
qualeties
And just called some points to remind me on my work
A lately many games a)Kasparov versus (started with world)
b)Kramnik versus
c)Smyslov Rebel Century (could have been where I pointed out
the 1-0 and 0-1 in that game
Winning computer personeletys
But most of all finding the weak and strong points of a program
I am sure that most programs would not be as good without me today.
Where I did not even mention that EOC and anti GM started with ideas from me
And that games from me where used to improve the rebel openingsbook
so is Junior6's openings book improved by anelyzes from me
I you want to neglact this all there is no use for stronger programs
and you also can put Kasparov in a god for seaken corner.
The new title on the New in Chess page is the biggest lie of all
(The complete treuth of openings)'( Franz Morsh told them that that game was
long theory but they didn't want to put my name on that game)
Also some people from Chessbase tried to refute my lines but they did it in such
away it was unclear for a program but still verry clear to me that my lines
where corect and their refutations where wrong (wich they new if they had looked
closely to my omplete anelyzes)
Then as last to mention that I started my work to speed up chess theory to pass
at least 2 centurys,but later on only was being hold by showing that it indeed
was all my work and keep pointing at it
But you have forgotten that I easely can show that that it is my work this site
is the prove.
All the games later on played by GM's are posted here long before they where
played.(only with much more anelyzes from that game)
then I started to point that I realy found it a joke that many programmers
neglacted my work and later on get punished for this against GMs
To my opinion to get a beta tester like me is a privilege for the programmer
and not for the beta tester.
Marc van Hal
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