Author: Côme
Date: 13:50:16 09/05/00
Go up one level in this thread
On September 05, 2000 at 16:08:18, Marc van Hal wrote: >On September 05, 2000 at 13:48:39, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 05, 2000 at 13:12:36, pavel wrote: >> >>>On September 05, 2000 at 12:30:51, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On September 05, 2000 at 12:04:50, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>> >>>>>One day someone may write a book about the sociology of computer chess. Well, >>>>>maybe the topic is not interesting enough for a book, but at least an article >>>>>could be fascinating. A few paragraphs should relate to beta-testing and the >>>>>relationship between CC freaks and programmers. Fernando: are you interested? >>>>> >>>>>Months ago, Uri posted that he expected to be paid for his collaboration with >>>>>the development of chess programs. It made me smile, because beta-testing is >>>>>supposed to be a privilege for the tester, although I never quite understood why >>>>>it works this way. But it does. From one day to the next, a freak may be >>>>>promoted to the "in" circle, improve his status to the imaginary rank of expert >>>>>and get the ensuing ego-booster, but he has to pay a price. I have seen private >>>>>emails from beta-testers published without permission when it was commercially >>>>>convenient; beta-testers demoted as no-team members; beta-testers forced to >>>>>write commercially useful stuff for the honor of spending X (when X tends to >>>>>very many) hours hunting for bugs and checking the engine. Etc. It would seem a >>>>>matter of common sense to assume, as Uri did, that collaborating in the >>>>>improvement of a commercial product is a paid job, but in computer chess it is >>>>>the other way round, even if the tester doesn't pay with money but in species. >>>> >>>>I want to say that I know that programmers do not earn much from their program >>>>so I do not think that beta testers should earn a lot of money from their job >>>>but I think that it is fair to get something from it(even if it is only 0.1$ per >>>>hour of testing). >>>> >>>>A programmer can decide to give all the beta testers together 20% of the money >>>>that the programmer earns from his(her) program in the next year >>>>(the programmer can decide to give part of them more money if they are more >>>>important and give more productive information). >>>> >>>>It may be a good deal for the programmer because the programmer can get better >>>>beta testers or even the same beta testers who work only for his(her) program >>>>and not for other programs and if these better beta testers are the difference >>>>between being number 1 in the ssdf and being number 2 both sides can earn money >>>>from this deal. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>and how would you know how much hours the beta tester is actually spending on >>>the testing? how would you calculate it with minimum wage? >> >>I think that the question is not the number of hours but the question how much >>they help to the programmer. >> >>Suppose the programmer has 20 beta testers. >> >>The programmer can decide to give everyone of them at least 1/2% and the >>decision if to give part of them more money will be decided later based on the >>information that they give. >> >> >>> >>>I personally believe it is a previlege for the beta tester, just like enrique >>>said. >> >>1)Part of the beta testers do not think like you and more beta testers can give >>more information(I can test the commercial or the freeware programs and do not >>need to be a beta tester in order to test programs). >> >>I was a beta tester of Junior in the past because Junior is from Isarel and I >>wanted to support it but I decided to stop doing it. >> >>2)If the beta tester know that (s)he earn part of the money (s)he will be more >>motivated to give ideas in order to help the program. >> >>I did not tell many of my ideas and I think that part of them can be productive >>for chess programs. >> >>Here is one simple example that I posted here about time allocation: >> >>Programs usually not follow the rule use more time when the time control is >>slower and are going to use more time when the time control is 2 hours/game and >>less time when the time control is 2 hours/120 moves. >> >>3)The beta tester is going to avoid testing other programs(there are beta >>testers who test more than one program) and will have more time to test one >>program. > >> >>Uri >After I saw yestereday that I did get no response from Schroder BV I was realy >disapointed >And wrote him about the fact that I was suprised he simply neglacted my >qualeties >And just called some points to remind me on my work >A lately many games a)Kasparov versus (started with world) > b)Kramnik versus > c)Smyslov Rebel Century (could have been where I pointed out >the 1-0 and 0-1 in that game >Winning computer personeletys >But most of all finding the weak and strong points of a program >I am sure that most programs would not be as good without me today. > >Where I did not even mention that EOC and anti GM started with ideas from me >And that games from me where used to improve the rebel openingsbook >so is Junior6's openings book improved by anelyzes from me >I you want to neglact this all there is no use for stronger programs >and you also can put Kasparov in a god for seaken corner. >The new title on the New in Chess page is the biggest lie of all >(The complete treuth of openings)'( Franz Morsh told them that that game was >long theory but they didn't want to put my name on that game) >Also some people from Chessbase tried to refute my lines but they did it in such >away it was unclear for a program but still verry clear to me that my lines >where corect and their refutations where wrong (wich they new if they had looked >closely to my omplete anelyzes) >Then as last to mention that I started my work to speed up chess theory to pass >at least 2 centurys,but later on only was being hold by showing that it indeed >was all my work and keep pointing at it >But you have forgotten that I easely can show that that it is my work this site >is the prove. >All the games later on played by GM's are posted here long before they where >played.(only with much more anelyzes from that game) >then I started to point that I realy found it a joke that many programmers >neglacted my work and later on get punished for this against GMs > >To my opinion to get a beta tester like me is a privilege for the programmer >and not for the beta tester. > >Marc van Hal Ha ha !! It's too much ! The day when you was born is probably the greatest day for humanity ! Ha ha !! Best Regards Alexandre Côme
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