Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 21:09:08 09/28/00
Go up one level in this thread
On September 28, 2000 at 17:55:04, Bruce Moreland wrote: >On September 28, 2000 at 00:28:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On September 27, 2000 at 15:26:37, Bruce Moreland wrote: >> >>>On September 27, 2000 at 12:21:30, Peter Kappler wrote: >>> >>>>On September 27, 2000 at 09:38:02, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>>I use the term "dead drawn" for positions where there is no hope to win. For >>>>>an example, set up any krb vs kr with Crafty and play it out. You'll then >>>>>appreciate the dead drawn description. >>>>> >>>>>:) >>> >>>>Nice try, but "dead drawn" is supposed to be a general description of a >>>>position. Factoring in the strength of the players just adds an unnecessary >>>>assymetry. For example, if I have the rook, and Crafty has the rook+bishop, >>>>suddenly it's not a dead draw. >>> >>>He is right, Bob. If you had a 32-man table, black probably holds regardless of >>>what white does, so the initial position would be "dead" drawn. >>> >>>A dead draw is a KRP vs KR with a pawn blockaded by the king. There may be dead >>>draws in KRB vs KR, but the typical position isn't dead, it's worth playing out. >>> >>>bruce >> >> >>I have seen hundreds of drawn KRP vs KR positions won by Crafty's "swindle >>mode". I don't consider a blunder by the opponent as changing the original >>"dead drawn" description... because I know that against a computer with >>tablebases (and most are now using them) these draws will end as draws. Ditto >>for playing against GMs. > >What I am getting at is that this is a weird argument because you are defending >your apparently careless use of the term "dead". It is not true that any ending >drawn via tables is a dead draw. That is all I think that is being argued. The >specific example is KRB vs KR, which is drawn in most cases, and perhaps there >are some dead draws in it, but the ending as a whole is not dead drawn. > >bruce Maybe my term was bad. I use "dead draw" for a position that is absolutely drawn with best play. I use "probable draw" for a position that looks like a draw, but which has play left. If you prefer "dead draw" to mean "simple draw" that may well be a better definition. In my case, I use it to refer to positions where the only winning chances are where the opponent screws up. IE positions I use "swindle mode" in the hope that the opponent will screw up, without having any real hope that he will.
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