Author: Andrew Dados
Date: 22:28:22 09/28/00
Go up one level in this thread
On September 29, 2000 at 00:09:08, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On September 28, 2000 at 17:55:04, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >>On September 28, 2000 at 00:28:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On September 27, 2000 at 15:26:37, Bruce Moreland wrote: >>> >>>>On September 27, 2000 at 12:21:30, Peter Kappler wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 27, 2000 at 09:38:02, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>>I use the term "dead drawn" for positions where there is no hope to win. For >>>>>>an example, set up any krb vs kr with Crafty and play it out. You'll then >>>>>>appreciate the dead drawn description. >>>>>> >>>>>>:) >>>> >>>>>Nice try, but "dead drawn" is supposed to be a general description of a >>>>>position. Factoring in the strength of the players just adds an unnecessary >>>>>assymetry. For example, if I have the rook, and Crafty has the rook+bishop, >>>>>suddenly it's not a dead draw. >>>> >>>>He is right, Bob. If you had a 32-man table, black probably holds regardless of >>>>what white does, so the initial position would be "dead" drawn. >>>> >>>>A dead draw is a KRP vs KR with a pawn blockaded by the king. There may be dead >>>>draws in KRB vs KR, but the typical position isn't dead, it's worth playing out. >>>> >>>>bruce >>> >>> >>>I have seen hundreds of drawn KRP vs KR positions won by Crafty's "swindle >>>mode". I don't consider a blunder by the opponent as changing the original >>>"dead drawn" description... because I know that against a computer with >>>tablebases (and most are now using them) these draws will end as draws. Ditto >>>for playing against GMs. >> >>What I am getting at is that this is a weird argument because you are defending >>your apparently careless use of the term "dead". It is not true that any ending >>drawn via tables is a dead draw. That is all I think that is being argued. The >>specific example is KRB vs KR, which is drawn in most cases, and perhaps there >>are some dead draws in it, but the ending as a whole is not dead drawn. >> >>bruce > > >Maybe my term was bad. I use "dead draw" for a position that is absolutely >drawn with best play. I use "probable draw" for a position that looks like a >draw, but which has play left. > >If you prefer "dead draw" to mean "simple draw" that may well be a better >definition. In my case, I use it to refer to positions where the only >winning chances are where the opponent screws up. IE positions I use >"swindle mode" in the hope that the opponent will screw up, without having >any real hope that he will. They used to refere to such positions as 'theoretic draw' or 'tablebase draw' afik.
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