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Subject: Re: penalty for opening H file of opponent when white and castled kingside

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 09:57:25 10/04/00

Go up one level in this thread


On October 04, 2000 at 12:04:01, Mike Adams wrote:

>>I'm sure there is some truth to what you are saying, but if Crafty needs to
>>search to a greater depth to find the same tactics, isn't that a sign of some
>>type of inefficiency?
>
>   I've noticed that some things speed up search a lot while compromising the
>integrity of the idea of a pure search.  Move ordering doesnt do this normally.
>If you search every node with simple Min Max or NegaMax it will be really slow
>but you will see everything up to the depth you search. Now if you include alpha
>beta and some move ordering like order like capture it will be much quicker and
>just as reliable. You'll get the same depth but faster.  Now say you were
>getting depht 5, Now you add Null Move and Futility Pruning. Both these
>algorithms are to put it simply ways of finding out if certain parts of the tree
>get lower scores and therefor are not worth searching. Now your no longer
>searching everything. You're making estimates.  Lets say this brings you from
>depth 5 to depth 7. Well its no longer a pure depth 7 search as you would have
>had if you searched every postion. Sometimes the result of this 'estimated
>search' will vary from a pure search.  Well here is how I look at it. In many
>situations your 'estimated search' is good enought and your getting 2 extra
>depth. In some situations you miss things that you would have seen with a pure
>search at an earlier depth tell later.  But that can be ok. lets say a depth 5
>tactic doesnt appear untill depth 7 with 'estimated search'.  Well if you did a
>pure search you would have got depth 5 and seen it.  With the 'estimated search'
>you got depth 7 and finnaly saw it.  As long as the extra depth required is not
>more than the gains from the 'estimates search' you really havent lost much. And
>often in the cases were things take longer to find it is the case that you'll
>still find whatever you would have found with the full search. Now lets say a
>tactic should show up at depth 5 you're getting depth 7 with this 'estimated
>search' and you miss the tactic because you need depht 8 or 9. Then you lose but
>from what i have seen with Pulsar it is much better to cut off the bad lines and
>get the deeper search than it is to be cautious and do a pure search every time.

Alphabeta and futility pruning are theoretically sound so you can search deeper
without sacrificing soundness, while nullmove (a form of selective search)
involves making a tradeoff albeit an effective one.



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