Author: Uri Blass
Date: 13:51:58 11/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 15, 2000 at 16:33:55, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 15, 2000 at 13:04:05, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 15, 2000 at 12:56:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 15, 2000 at 12:41:36, Peter Skinner wrote: >>> >>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:16:24, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:12:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 09:52:03, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>This position is real from a game ( but not from Tiger ) ! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[D]8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - a3 0 1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In this position played a old version from Fritz 5 (Fritz-Nemeth) Ne5? >>>>>>>And the game was draw ! :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I give now this position Tiger 13.0 for test an Tiger 13.0 played Ne5 ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>(With tablebases Tiger how about better) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Eduard >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Ne4 is a mate in 26, of course. But a program that doesn't >>>>>>support tablebases is probably not going to have a clue here. >>>>> >>>>>Junior5.9 without tablebase have no problem to find Ne4 with +4.08 score in a >>>>>short time. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>Engine version : Rebel Century 2.01 >>>>Hash table size : 28 Mb >>>> >>>>8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - - >>>> >>>>00:00 01.01 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>>00:00 02.00 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>>00:00 02.15 3.13 1.Ne5 >>>>00:00 02.16 3.13 1.Nd6 >>>>00:00 02.17 3.13 1.Ne3 >>>>00:00 02.20 3.13 1.Nb6 >>>>00:00 02.21 3.13 1.Nb2 >>>>00:00 03.00 3.35 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 >>>>00:00 04.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Kh3 Kb5 >>>>00:00 04.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>>00:02 05.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nf6 h4 3.a4 >>>>00:03 05.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>>00:03 05.02 3.12 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nf4 h4 3.a4 >>>>00:05 06.00 2.71 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nc7 Kb3 3.Nb5 h4 >>>>00:06 06.01 2.85 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 >>>>00:07 06.03 2.85 1.Kg3 >>>>00:11 07.00 2.91 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 >>>>00:27 08.00 2.90 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 Kb5 5.Nd6 Ka4 >>>>01:15 09.00 2.79 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kb4 3.Nc3 Ka5 4.Kh3 Kb4 5.Kg3 >>>>02:24 10.00 3.66 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3 Kc6 4.Kh3 Kd7 5.a5 Kd6 >>>>02:26 11.00 4.12 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Ke5 5.a5 Kd6 6.a6 >>>>02:31 12.00 4.80 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kh4 Kc4 6.Kxh5 >>>>Kb4 >>>>02:40 13.00 4.81 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kg2 Kb4 6.Kh3 Kc5 >>>>7.Kg2 Kb4 8.Kh3 >>>> >>>>Rebel Tiger 13.0 >>>> >>>>Move: Nd2+ (3/22) depth=16 >>>>Score: 6.62 depth: 16 >>>>Ne4 Kxa3 Kh3 h4 Ng6 Kb4 Nh7 Ka3 Ne5 Ka4 Nf6 Ka3 Nfg4 Ka4 Nd7 Kb4 >>>> >>>>Tiger takes nearly 1.5 mins to find Ne4, yet Rebel 2.01 analysis engine in the >>>>Rebel 11.0 package finds Ne4 instantly. >>> >>> >>>Try them against a tablebase program to see if they can _win_ the position. >>>It is not easy. The eval of +4 shows they likely don't understand... >> >>Evaluation of +4 is usually a win and the opponent is not important. > >Not when one side has two knights and the other has a single pawn. Many >programs don't call KNNK a draw. they call it +6 or more. And I can >guarantee you it won't win. :) > > > >> >>Some programs with no tablebases know that KNN vs KP is often a draw so they >>have no problem not to evaluate KNN vs KP as a big advantage for white. > >The game he posted had +4. That isn't close to a draw, nor is it close to >a mate. Which means the program really really doesn't know what it is into, >most likely. programs that believe that KNN vs K is a win evaluate the original position as +6 and not +4. The fact that some programs without tablebases can see +4 suggests that they have no problem to win. Uri
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