Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 13:33:55 11/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 15, 2000 at 13:04:05, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 15, 2000 at 12:56:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 15, 2000 at 12:41:36, Peter Skinner wrote: >> >>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:16:24, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:12:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 09:52:03, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>This position is real from a game ( but not from Tiger ) ! >>>>>> >>>>>>[D]8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - a3 0 1 >>>>>> >>>>>>In this position played a old version from Fritz 5 (Fritz-Nemeth) Ne5? >>>>>>And the game was draw ! :) >>>>>> >>>>>>I give now this position Tiger 13.0 for test an Tiger 13.0 played Ne5 ? >>>>>> >>>>>>(With tablebases Tiger how about better) >>>>>> >>>>>>Eduard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Ne4 is a mate in 26, of course. But a program that doesn't >>>>>support tablebases is probably not going to have a clue here. >>>> >>>>Junior5.9 without tablebase have no problem to find Ne4 with +4.08 score in a >>>>short time. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Engine version : Rebel Century 2.01 >>>Hash table size : 28 Mb >>> >>>8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - - >>> >>>00:00 01.01 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>00:00 02.00 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>00:00 02.15 3.13 1.Ne5 >>>00:00 02.16 3.13 1.Nd6 >>>00:00 02.17 3.13 1.Ne3 >>>00:00 02.20 3.13 1.Nb6 >>>00:00 02.21 3.13 1.Nb2 >>>00:00 03.00 3.35 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 >>>00:00 04.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Kh3 Kb5 >>>00:00 04.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>00:02 05.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nf6 h4 3.a4 >>>00:03 05.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>00:03 05.02 3.12 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nf4 h4 3.a4 >>>00:05 06.00 2.71 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nc7 Kb3 3.Nb5 h4 >>>00:06 06.01 2.85 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 >>>00:07 06.03 2.85 1.Kg3 >>>00:11 07.00 2.91 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 >>>00:27 08.00 2.90 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 Kb5 5.Nd6 Ka4 >>>01:15 09.00 2.79 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kb4 3.Nc3 Ka5 4.Kh3 Kb4 5.Kg3 >>>02:24 10.00 3.66 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3 Kc6 4.Kh3 Kd7 5.a5 Kd6 >>>02:26 11.00 4.12 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Ke5 5.a5 Kd6 6.a6 >>>02:31 12.00 4.80 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kh4 Kc4 6.Kxh5 >>>Kb4 >>>02:40 13.00 4.81 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kg2 Kb4 6.Kh3 Kc5 >>>7.Kg2 Kb4 8.Kh3 >>> >>>Rebel Tiger 13.0 >>> >>>Move: Nd2+ (3/22) depth=16 >>>Score: 6.62 depth: 16 >>>Ne4 Kxa3 Kh3 h4 Ng6 Kb4 Nh7 Ka3 Ne5 Ka4 Nf6 Ka3 Nfg4 Ka4 Nd7 Kb4 >>> >>>Tiger takes nearly 1.5 mins to find Ne4, yet Rebel 2.01 analysis engine in the >>>Rebel 11.0 package finds Ne4 instantly. >> >> >>Try them against a tablebase program to see if they can _win_ the position. >>It is not easy. The eval of +4 shows they likely don't understand... > >Evaluation of +4 is usually a win and the opponent is not important. Not when one side has two knights and the other has a single pawn. Many programs don't call KNNK a draw. they call it +6 or more. And I can guarantee you it won't win. :) > >Some programs with no tablebases know that KNN vs KP is often a draw so they >have no problem not to evaluate KNN vs KP as a big advantage for white. The game he posted had +4. That isn't close to a draw, nor is it close to a mate. Which means the program really really doesn't know what it is into, most likely. > >I think that it is a simple win that humans can win against every chess program > >It is easy for humans to see after Ne4 Kxc4 that white has more than one way to >win(Nd2+ and Nb1 is one plan and a4 and Nc3 is another plan) > >The black king cannot take the knight because the white pawn is going to queen >and the white king can go to take the black pawn and after it KNP vs K is a >simple win. > >It is also simple to see for programs with the right knowledge and knowing that >KNN vs KP is often a draw is enough. There are plenty of wins here. In fact, the position given is a mate... > >Uri
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