Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:49:25 11/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 15, 2000 at 16:57:46, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 15, 2000 at 16:31:20, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 15, 2000 at 16:06:55, Eric Campos wrote: >> >>>On November 15, 2000 at 12:56:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 15, 2000 at 12:41:36, Peter Skinner wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:16:24, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:12:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 09:52:03, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This position is real from a game ( but not from Tiger ) ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>[D]8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - a3 0 1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In this position played a old version from Fritz 5 (Fritz-Nemeth) Ne5? >>>>>>>>And the game was draw ! :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I give now this position Tiger 13.0 for test an Tiger 13.0 played Ne5 ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>(With tablebases Tiger how about better) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Eduard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ne4 is a mate in 26, of course. But a program that doesn't >>>>>>>support tablebases is probably not going to have a clue here. >>>>>> >>>>>>Junior5.9 without tablebase have no problem to find Ne4 with +4.08 score in a >>>>>>short time. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>>Engine version : Rebel Century 2.01 >>>>>Hash table size : 28 Mb >>>>> >>>>>8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - - >>>>> >>>>>00:00 01.01 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>>>00:00 02.00 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>>>00:00 02.15 3.13 1.Ne5 >>>>>00:00 02.16 3.13 1.Nd6 >>>>>00:00 02.17 3.13 1.Ne3 >>>>>00:00 02.20 3.13 1.Nb6 >>>>>00:00 02.21 3.13 1.Nb2 >>>>>00:00 03.00 3.35 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 >>>>>00:00 04.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Kh3 Kb5 >>>>>00:00 04.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>>>00:02 05.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nf6 h4 3.a4 >>>>>00:03 05.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>>>00:03 05.02 3.12 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nf4 h4 3.a4 >>>>>00:05 06.00 2.71 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nc7 Kb3 3.Nb5 h4 >>>>>00:06 06.01 2.85 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 >>>>>00:07 06.03 2.85 1.Kg3 >>>>>00:11 07.00 2.91 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 >>>>>00:27 08.00 2.90 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 Kb5 5.Nd6 Ka4 >>>>>01:15 09.00 2.79 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kb4 3.Nc3 Ka5 4.Kh3 Kb4 5.Kg3 >>>>>02:24 10.00 3.66 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3 Kc6 4.Kh3 Kd7 5.a5 Kd6 >>>>>02:26 11.00 4.12 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Ke5 5.a5 Kd6 6.a6 >>>>>02:31 12.00 4.80 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kh4 Kc4 6.Kxh5 >>>>>Kb4 >>>>>02:40 13.00 4.81 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kg2 Kb4 6.Kh3 Kc5 >>>>>7.Kg2 Kb4 8.Kh3 >>>>> >>>>>Rebel Tiger 13.0 >>>>> >>>>>Move: Nd2+ (3/22) depth=16 >>>>>Score: 6.62 depth: 16 >>>>>Ne4 Kxa3 Kh3 h4 Ng6 Kb4 Nh7 Ka3 Ne5 Ka4 Nf6 Ka3 Nfg4 Ka4 Nd7 Kb4 >>>>> >>>>>Tiger takes nearly 1.5 mins to find Ne4, yet Rebel 2.01 analysis engine in the >>>>>Rebel 11.0 package finds Ne4 instantly. >>>> >>>> >>>>Try them against a tablebase program to see if they can _win_ the position. >>>>It is not easy. The eval of +4 shows they likely don't understand... >>> >>> >>>I hope someone does try this (I still haven't installed any tablebase programs >>>-- but I will). I can't picture today's programs not winning after finding >>>1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+, because the rest is just counting the race to the >>>h-pawn, which programs seem to do a lot better than I do! >>> >>>- Eric >> >> >>If you win the h pawn, you draw. That is the point of this ending. two >>knights can not force mate against the lone king, unless the lone king has >>a pawn so it won't be stalemated near the end... > >You missed the fact that after 1.Ne4 Kxc4 white has only one knight. > >avoiding Kxc4 is not going to help black because in this case white has two >knights and a pawn and has no problem to win so programs with the knowledge that >KNN vs K is a draw and with the knowledge that KNN vs KP is often a draw have no >problem to win the game and the defence of black is not important. > >Uri Sorry. Set the position up wrong here. I worked this in while trying to finish up reading a Ph.D. dissertation (had a student of mine defend this morning). Bob
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