Author: Uri Blass
Date: 13:57:46 11/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 15, 2000 at 16:31:20, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 15, 2000 at 16:06:55, Eric Campos wrote: > >>On November 15, 2000 at 12:56:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 15, 2000 at 12:41:36, Peter Skinner wrote: >>> >>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:16:24, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:12:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 09:52:03, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>This position is real from a game ( but not from Tiger ) ! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>[D]8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - a3 0 1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>In this position played a old version from Fritz 5 (Fritz-Nemeth) Ne5? >>>>>>>And the game was draw ! :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I give now this position Tiger 13.0 for test an Tiger 13.0 played Ne5 ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>(With tablebases Tiger how about better) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Eduard >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Ne4 is a mate in 26, of course. But a program that doesn't >>>>>>support tablebases is probably not going to have a clue here. >>>>> >>>>>Junior5.9 without tablebase have no problem to find Ne4 with +4.08 score in a >>>>>short time. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>Engine version : Rebel Century 2.01 >>>>Hash table size : 28 Mb >>>> >>>>8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - - >>>> >>>>00:00 01.01 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>>00:00 02.00 3.13 1.Ne4 Kxc4 >>>>00:00 02.15 3.13 1.Ne5 >>>>00:00 02.16 3.13 1.Nd6 >>>>00:00 02.17 3.13 1.Ne3 >>>>00:00 02.20 3.13 1.Nb6 >>>>00:00 02.21 3.13 1.Nb2 >>>>00:00 03.00 3.35 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 >>>>00:00 04.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Kh3 Kb5 >>>>00:00 04.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>>00:02 05.00 3.05 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nf6 h4 3.a4 >>>>00:03 05.01 3.05 1.Kg3 >>>>00:03 05.02 3.12 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nf4 h4 3.a4 >>>>00:05 06.00 2.71 1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nc7 Kb3 3.Nb5 h4 >>>>00:06 06.01 2.85 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 >>>>00:07 06.03 2.85 1.Kg3 >>>>00:11 07.00 2.91 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 >>>>00:27 08.00 2.90 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 Kb5 5.Nd6 Ka4 >>>>01:15 09.00 2.79 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kb4 3.Nc3 Ka5 4.Kh3 Kb4 5.Kg3 >>>>02:24 10.00 3.66 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3 Kc6 4.Kh3 Kd7 5.a5 Kd6 >>>>02:26 11.00 4.12 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Ke5 5.a5 Kd6 6.a6 >>>>02:31 12.00 4.80 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kh4 Kc4 6.Kxh5 >>>>Kb4 >>>>02:40 13.00 4.81 1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kg2 Kb4 6.Kh3 Kc5 >>>>7.Kg2 Kb4 8.Kh3 >>>> >>>>Rebel Tiger 13.0 >>>> >>>>Move: Nd2+ (3/22) depth=16 >>>>Score: 6.62 depth: 16 >>>>Ne4 Kxa3 Kh3 h4 Ng6 Kb4 Nh7 Ka3 Ne5 Ka4 Nf6 Ka3 Nfg4 Ka4 Nd7 Kb4 >>>> >>>>Tiger takes nearly 1.5 mins to find Ne4, yet Rebel 2.01 analysis engine in the >>>>Rebel 11.0 package finds Ne4 instantly. >>> >>> >>>Try them against a tablebase program to see if they can _win_ the position. >>>It is not easy. The eval of +4 shows they likely don't understand... >> >> >>I hope someone does try this (I still haven't installed any tablebase programs >>-- but I will). I can't picture today's programs not winning after finding >>1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+, because the rest is just counting the race to the >>h-pawn, which programs seem to do a lot better than I do! >> >>- Eric > > >If you win the h pawn, you draw. That is the point of this ending. two >knights can not force mate against the lone king, unless the lone king has >a pawn so it won't be stalemated near the end... You missed the fact that after 1.Ne4 Kxc4 white has only one knight. avoiding Kxc4 is not going to help black because in this case white has two knights and a pawn and has no problem to win so programs with the knowledge that KNN vs K is a draw and with the knowledge that KNN vs KP is often a draw have no problem to win the game and the defence of black is not important. Uri
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