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Subject: Re: Chess Tiger 13.0 without tablebases (a test position) !

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:31:20 11/15/00

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On November 15, 2000 at 16:06:55, Eric Campos wrote:

>On November 15, 2000 at 12:56:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 15, 2000 at 12:41:36, Peter Skinner wrote:
>>
>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:16:24, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 11:12:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 15, 2000 at 09:52:03, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>This position is real from a game ( but not from Tiger ) !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - a3 0 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In this position played a old version from Fritz 5 (Fritz-Nemeth) Ne5?
>>>>>>And the game was draw ! :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I give now this position Tiger 13.0 for test an Tiger 13.0 played Ne5 ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(With tablebases Tiger how about better)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Eduard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ne4 is a mate in 26, of course.  But a program that doesn't
>>>>>support tablebases is probably not going to have a clue here.
>>>>
>>>>Junior5.9 without tablebase have no problem to find Ne4 with +4.08 score in a
>>>>short time.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>Engine version   : Rebel Century 2.01
>>>Hash table size  :  28 Mb
>>>
>>>8/8/8/6Np/2N5/Pk6/6K1/8 w - -
>>>
>>>00:00  01.01  3.13  1.Ne4 Kxc4
>>>00:00  02.00  3.13  1.Ne4 Kxc4
>>>00:00  02.15  3.13  1.Ne5
>>>00:00  02.16  3.13  1.Nd6
>>>00:00  02.17  3.13  1.Ne3
>>>00:00  02.20  3.13  1.Nb6
>>>00:00  02.21  3.13  1.Nb2
>>>00:00  03.00  3.35  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4
>>>00:00  04.00  3.05  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Kh3 Kb5
>>>00:00  04.01  3.05  1.Kg3
>>>00:02  05.00  3.05  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nf6 h4 3.a4
>>>00:03  05.01  3.05  1.Kg3
>>>00:03  05.02  3.12  1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nf4 h4 3.a4
>>>00:05  06.00  2.71  1.Ne6 Kxc4 2.Nc7 Kb3 3.Nb5 h4
>>>00:06  06.01  2.85  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4
>>>00:07  06.03  2.85  1.Kg3
>>>00:11  07.00  2.91  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4
>>>00:27  08.00  2.90  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.Nd2+ Kb5 3.Kg3 Ka4 4.Nc4 Kb5 5.Nd6 Ka4
>>>01:15  09.00  2.79  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kb4 3.Nc3 Ka5 4.Kh3 Kb4 5.Kg3
>>>02:24  10.00  3.66  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3 Kc6 4.Kh3 Kd7 5.a5 Kd6
>>>02:26  11.00  4.12  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Ke5 5.a5 Kd6 6.a6
>>>02:31  12.00  4.80  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kh4 Kc4 6.Kxh5
>>>Kb4
>>>02:40  13.00  4.81  1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+ Kd4 4.Kh3 Kc5 5.Kg2 Kb4 6.Kh3 Kc5
>>>7.Kg2 Kb4 8.Kh3
>>>
>>>Rebel Tiger 13.0
>>>
>>>Move: Nd2+  (3/22)  depth=16
>>>Score: 6.62   depth: 16
>>>Ne4 Kxa3 Kh3 h4 Ng6 Kb4 Nh7 Ka3 Ne5 Ka4 Nf6 Ka3 Nfg4 Ka4 Nd7 Kb4
>>>
>>>Tiger takes nearly 1.5 mins to find Ne4, yet Rebel 2.01 analysis engine in the
>>>Rebel 11.0 package finds Ne4 instantly.
>>
>>
>>Try them against a tablebase program to see if they can _win_ the position.
>>It is not easy.  The eval of +4 shows they likely don't understand...
>
>
>I hope someone does try this (I still haven't installed any tablebase programs
>-- but I will).  I can't picture today's programs not winning after finding
>1.Ne4 Kxc4 2.a4 Kd5 3.Nc3+, because the rest is just counting the race to the
>h-pawn, which programs seem to do a lot better than I do!
>
>- Eric


If you win the h pawn, you draw.  That is the point of this ending.  two
knights can not force mate against the lone king, unless the lone king has
a pawn so it won't be stalemated near the end...



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