Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Please refrain from posting erroneous information

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:23:30 12/07/00

Go up one level in this thread


On December 07, 2000 at 14:59:12, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On December 07, 2000 at 11:14:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 07, 2000 at 07:09:52, Harry Field wrote:
>>
>>>On December 06, 2000 at 16:26:20, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 06, 2000 at 13:30:05, Harry Field wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 06, 2000 at 10:52:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 06, 2000 at 01:20:08, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On December 06, 2000 at 00:50:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Isn't this the latest fad?  Can you say "deep junior", "deep fritz"?  Care
>>>>>>>>to guess where "deep" was first used?  :)  Ie what could be more confusing
>>>>>>>>than "deep junior" after there is already a very famous program that went
>>>>>>>>by "deep blue junior"???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I wouldn't have dared to say it myself. I happen to be in perfect agreement with
>>>>>>>you on this topic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm a big boy.  I don't mind stating the obvious.
>>>>>
>>>>>Except you happen to be wrong. Big boy.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nice opinion, no proof?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Just read on. The proof is revealed.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Seems to me that borrowing from a "famous name" is quite acceptable,
>>>>>>>>wouldn't you think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I did not say it is not acceptable or illegal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's just a low commercial practice. And generally used by followers, that's why
>>>>>>>I have been disappointed to see Stefan doing it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Christophe
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I wouldn't begin to claim to know the motivation behind any of the look-alike
>>>>>>names.  I simply don't like the idea much.  IE "crafty" is "crafty" whether it
>>>>>>is a parallel searcher or a serial searcher.  I don't like any of the following,
>>>>>>personally:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.  the name is a proper subset of the name of another program.  IE there is
>>>>>>already a program named x y z, and the new name is either x y, x z or y z.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2.  the name is an improper subset of the name of another program.  ie there
>>>>>>is a program named x y, and the new program is named x z or y z.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1 certainly leads to mass confusion.  2 leads to some confusion.  Both seem to
>>>>>>be 'strange'...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IE on ICC we have had a "deepblue", a "deeperblue".  A "diepblue".  Etc.
>>>>>>I don't like any of them.  Since none have Hsu/Campbell/Hoane/etc behind them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hsu/Cambell ripped the name "Deep Thought" off from the Douglas Adams book
>>>>>"Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". Deep Thought was a computer which was
>>>>>supposed to be able to answer the question of life, the universe and everything,
>>>>>taking seven million years and producing the answer "42".
>>>>>
>>>>>Also around at that time, as "big boys" will remember, was the Linda Lovelace
>>>>>porn movie "Deep Throat", featuring a prolonged act of oral sex for the "first"
>>>>>time on mass release in video porn stores. The name "Deep Throat" was then used
>>>>>for the mole in the Nixon administration which was feeding inside informations
>>>>>to Woodward/Berstein team reference the Watergate scandal. Whether Deep Thought
>>>>>or Deep Throat came first (sic), I don't know. Both came before Hsu and co.
>>>>>
>>>>>Deep Thought was then renamed Deep Blue for IBM purposes. How your theory that a
>>>>>ripped off name could then be 'owned' and further users of it castigated is
>>>>>beyond me. Have you an agenda or case to prove?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't have anything to prove.
>>>
>>>
>>>!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> The _first_ chess program to use the name
>>>>"deep anything" was deep thought.  IBM then changed the name to deep blue.
>>>>That is what I said.  That is _all_ I said.
>>>
>>>
>>>No it is not all you said. You call "Deep" a "look-alike" name, implying that
>>>the original was Hsu and co's Deep Thought (you said first used) and the later
>>>version names are confusing, look-alikes, of dubious motivation, strange, odd.
>>>
>>>All that I said was that the Hsu and co name was not original either and ripped
>>>off Douglas Adams. The rip off was in more ways than one. DeepThought was a
>>>hubristic attempt that didn't work, to solve life the universe and everything,
>>>it was attended by high priest programmers who were in awe of it and eventually,
>>>after an unexpected seven million years of processing it provided a useless
>>>answer by a thinking process nobody could understand. DeepThought rip off
>>>version was produced, hubristically, in total lack of understanding of the irony
>>>of the original, to solve by deep search the problem of an 8x8 zero-sum game
>>>(thought of by the computer chess fanatics as life, the universe and
>>>everything), it is attended by high priest programmers and acoloytes in awe of
>>>it and it provided a useless answer, before being taken to pieces for ever, by a
>>>thinking process nobody could understand or wanted to use again.
>>
>>As I said, I don't _care_ about other names using "deep" as in "deep throat"
>>and the like.  The subject du jour is chess program names.  And there, Hsu
>>and Campbell _do_ have dibs on the name deep thought.  And IBM has apparently
>>registered "deep blue" as a trademark so they _definitely_ have dibs on that
>>name.
>>
>>I don't think GM would care if someone produced a knife named "Impala".  But
>>I don't think they would stand for a BMW model with that name.  Ditto for
>>chess engines.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Both machines were cheats, both were principally hardware, both couldn't do what
>>>they were supposed to do, both required 7 million years to reach a useless
>>>answer, both were scrapped, etc. etc. etc.
>>
>>
>>That is an _incredibly_ stupid statement.  "Both machines were cheats, ..."
>>Total stupidity.  Deep Blue was an incredible failure, after all it could
>>only manage to beat the best human on the planet.  Real "cheat" I would
>>say...
>
>
>
>
>Bob, obviously the guy is trolling.
>
>I think he got us. Me with "Gambit", and you with "Deep Blue".
>
>Maybe he is Chris? If it is so, congratulations Chris, you've got me! :)
>
>
>
>    Christophe


actually he was exposed earlier. :)  There have been private email conversations
about this already.  :(



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.