Author: Thorsten Czub
Date: 13:57:56 03/05/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 05, 2001 at 16:08:48, Andreas Schwartmann wrote:
>>brilliant. i ask because i don't want that anybody feels disadvantaged.
>>if anybody thinks he has a better version he is allowed to upgrade
>>between the rounds.
>And that's completely rubbish. If you update engines between rounds, what use is
>the outcome of such a tournament?
the idea of the tournament is to measure the strength of the engines.
It's not "rubbish" to allow the programmers to bugfix or update engines
from time to time. it's normal tournament stuff. Take a normal computer-
chess-championship, take an official one (ICCA chess championship).
What do you think do the programmers after each round ?
Start next round with the same program ? Same book ? not bugfixed ?
And ? is such a tournament "rubbish" ?
Have you ever complained about an icca-computer-chess-championship
because the programmers updated their engines during the tournament ?
I have seen NO complain by you or anybody else.
What about latest paderborn-tournament ?
Do you believe that the programmers played each round with the same version?
Same book ?
Where was your complaint or your comment ("rubbish") there ?
Maybe i have missed your comment.
> There is no consistency in this tourney!
exactly.
when humans play : there is no consistency. when programs play: there is no
consistency.
consistency is something that exists in your mind. theoretical.
or when you always use the same programs on the same hardwware, you maybe
have consistency. but - who does this and where in which tournament ?
> An
>updated engine is a DIFFERENT engine, so you might as well not call it a tourney
>but a set of engine matches.
no . it is a tournament.
humans play different from round to round too. and nobody ever complained
about the word tournament.
>Hell, you might even start such a "tourney" with
>Fritz 1 and end up with Fritz 7 ... and what would this say about Fritz's
>playing strength?
depends how fritz plays in the tournament. if it wins and plays good games
i would say: well done.
(I suppose the tournament takes a few years since fritz1 - fritz7 took quite a
while :-)))
> He started weak but ended up the winner nontheless? Har har.
yes. if e.g. a program has a bug, and loses due to a bug, and you use this
version 15 rounds, what can we learn about the playing strength of this program
?
nothing. we learn how much the bug weakned this program.
this is not my intention. i am not interested in how weak the programs play due
to bugs. i am interested to find out how strong the programs can play.
>In my opinon, the engine version that started the tournament should be the very
>engine that ends it. No changing of horses in midstream or else the results get
>worthless!
your opinion. i would adress this to paderborn tournament director or icca
tournament directors. maybe they listen to you and reevaluate their
championships new.
maybe some champions will then have to be disqualified after all ?
>Imagine Linares ... Kasparov gets bored in midtourney and gets exchanges by
>Kramnik ...
imagine kaparov 1 learns about something after the first round. imagine he plays
different in game 2 due to new learning methods or new recreation after the
first game or advises by best friends or eating lobsters.
imagine he is different in game 3. and imagine he plays different level in
game 4.
can you imagine that kasparov of game 1 is not the same that plays in round 4 ?
maybe you lack fantasy. i can imagine very good that humans beeings learn
out of mistakes and be replaced by a bugfixed "version".
Why should i replace kasparov with kramnik ? i do not exchange fritz6b with
colossus chess. why should I ?
>Shirov does not play to good, so he sends in his brother (does he
>have one?) ... but that would not be a tourney anymore. Just like your Odyssee
>with updated engines is no tourney in my opinion.
>Just my $0.02.
your 0.02$ are not much for me, andreas.
too cheap IMO ...
but your tried it. thats always better then resigning in forward.
maybe next time you try with more energy. maybe there is hope ?!
>
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