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Subject: Re: Gandalf H, First Impressions

Author: Mogens Larsen

Date: 03:51:24 03/06/01

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On March 05, 2001 at 19:56:03, Fernando Villegas wrote:

>Hi:
>I was not very satisfied with Gandalf f and g -and I had sometimes a somewhat
>harsh discussion about that with Mogens- but the new update, "h", seems to be a
>very different animal.

Just as a little note. We didn't argue about the playing style, because that is
a very subjective topic. But I objected to nonsensical idea of (relative)
uniform program performance disregarding effects from changing
hardware/timecontrol.

Generally, I don't care too much about other opinions than my own when it comes
to playing style and I think most people do the same. Not a fruitful topic for
debate IMO.

>I have not masive data to support my impression. Just
>some games, but, as Thorsten, I believe that after many years playing programs a
>chess computer nerd can get some accurate or at leats not very distorted
>perception with very few elements in hand. Thorsten has said that he just need
>some moves: I need some games.

Then you're both wrong. Chess programs aren't deterministic enough to reveal
identifiable patterns of correct or incorrect play within a subset of related
positions from a few games. The more the merrier.

Fewer games just mean personal or psychological preferences and not analytical
observations.

>To begin with, it seems to me that this update is more agressive and
>enterprising, a lot more gifted with the so called "killer instinct". With
>Gandalf F and G I felt I was playing a somewhat pasive program waiting for your
>mistakes; H, on the contrary, goes for your king a lot quicker.
>If I am right, this could be the result of a huge rewriting or just some touches
>here and there capable of important different outputs. This last posibility is
>not so imposible, as the case of Gambit Tiger shows. According to Christophe, he
>just made some changes in the original code of Tiger to give his cousin a
>greater inclination to attacking moves to the king, but nevertheless, as
>everybody here knows, those changes produced a great differential in playing
>style. I would like to know something about that from the authors of the program
>or from Mogens, if he does not mind.

I'm not sure if the program author follows this forum that closely, which is
probably a sensible move. And since I'm not associated with the Gandalf Team as
such, except for the occasional testrun, there isn't a lot of information to be
revealed.

However, I'm quite certain that the "h" version isn't a rewrite of the previous
versions. The emphasis were on bugfixing, eg. learning and removing the
extension responsible for the loss against DF at Paderborn, and some tweaking of
the evaluation. I imagine that the tweaking of various parameters was based on
experinces gained at chess servers. According to Frank Q. its also a bit faster,
but I haven't tried to check that.

So even though I'm tempted to say that nothing has changed to make you look
silly :-), I really can't say for sure. The timespan also suggests that it would
be difficult to implement and test new ideas en masse. I think that this is
reserved for Gandalf 5.

Mogens.



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