Author: Jason Williamson
Date: 09:01:15 04/16/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 16, 2001 at 11:00:46, Bertil Eklund wrote: >On April 16, 2001 at 05:33:47, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>On April 15, 2001 at 18:44:06, Bertil Eklund wrote: >> >> >>>Here is some news about the upcoming event: >>> >>> >>>- We invited 4 programs: DB and the Deeps of Fritz, Shredder and Junior. >>>"We" is BGN and Enrique Irazoqui, with Bertil Eklund as consultant. >> >>A very nice couple. Both of them just recently called me a hypocrite >>in the CSS forum. My sin: reporting the Odyssey tournament. Reason: >>they dislike Thorsten Czub the organizer of Odyssey. > >Are you sure you will bring this up again? Your support of a man that time after >time lies about Enrique, Djordje and SSDF to name a few. He has several times >accused us for being paid, taking bribes and other horrible things. >And your answer: "I know nothing". I can take that but I believe that the main >reason that mr Irazoqui don't post here anymore isn't Thorsten's accusations but >instead that you support mr Czub. As far as I remember there was a lot of heavy >criticism in the CSS-Forum against your promotion of the Odysse-tournament and >mr Czub. No I haven't said that mr Czub manipulates the results. > >>Why do you mention this Ed? >> >>Because I am in this business too long. Personal dislikes have become >>the keyword expelling Rebel and Tiger. > >Absolutely ridicoulous! I have said several times that my favourite program is >Tiger/Gambit. I have also said that I'm really sorry that there are no >SMP-Tigers available. I truly believe that 8xDeep Shreeder or Fritz is much >better then Tiger on one cpu. I have also said that I'm truly sorry for mr >Theron that his excellent program can't compare under the given conditions. As >far as I know, I think he agrees with that. As far as I remember, the only >criticism from me against Shredder was that I found it to be weaker then >Shredder4 in blitz at least on a slow (450) machine. I have said that I'm really >impressed with Shredders positional play and of course the excellent endgame. I >also mentioned the excellent auto-player in Shredder4/5. > >>>- DB is obvious. Fritz has been leading everything in computer chess, >> >>Only on SSDF. >> >>Which manual tournament Fritz has won the last 3 years? > >Almost every program has won some kind of a short tournament in few rounds. >In the longer tournaments I have seen, I must said that Fritz probably has won >the most and now the best is probably Tiger14. I believe it is better then >Gambit but I'm not sure. >> >>Answer: NONE. > >Not many plays long tournaments manually. >> >> >>>short of a Swiss open of 7 rounds that receives the name "world championship". >> >> >>Ridiculous... >> >>There are only 2 programs playing in this world championship. > >Yes, but four was invited. Do you have any idea of the cost of a match against >Kramnik? Can't this be a reason that they want the best SMP-program? > > >>>Shredder is strong and got the 2 last titles, whatever they mean, although >>>it never topped the SSDF list, never won long tournaments. Junior is also >>>strong, was first in the SSDF list about a year ago, won some long >>>tournaments, achieved a PR of 2702 last year in Dortmund. >> >>Agreed, but then.......... >> >>Tiger 12.0 coming from nothing topped the SSDF list. The new Tiger will >>top your list soon. > >I guess you are right. >> >> >>>The rest is either >>>not strong enough or not SMP ready, which means they don't have a chance and >>>their inclusion would only increase randomness. >> >>What an utter nonsense is that. You and Enrique should know better than that. >>It is like Christophe said, all arranged behind the curtains, no way back. >>Discrimination of the worst kind. > >If this kind of random event chooses the challenger, it could of course be >Hiarcs on a 800-machine, Are you serious, that you believe Hiarcs on a slow >machine is better then Deep-X on 8x1000? > >>In no way it is proven that a multi-processor program is doing better than >>a single-processor program. Just look at the latest Ausfess tournament Tiger >>13.0 (not 14.0) topping above all the multi-processing entries: >> >>================================================== >>Tournament : Aufseß 2001 >>Date : 13/03 to 17/03 >>Type : 9 rounds Swiss >>Time control : 3h/all >> >> 1. Chess-Tiger 13.0 Athlon 1,3 GHz 6.5 46.5 31.75 >> 2. Hiarcs 7.32 Athlon 800 6.5 46.0 32.75 >> 3. CM 6555 Athlon 1,2 GHz 6.0 45.5 29.00 >> 4. SOS 11/2000 Athlon 800 5.5 44.5 26.25 >> 5. Deep Fritz 2x P3 1 GHz 5.5 43.5 26.00 >> 6. Gandalf 4.32h Athlon 1,2 GHz 5.5 36.5 20.25 >> 7. Hiarcs 7.01 Athlon 1,0 5.0 45.0 24.00 >> 8. Gambit-Tiger 1.0 P3-840 5.0 44.0 22.25 >> 9. Shredder5 Erbsenzähler P3-1000 5.0 41.5 20.25 >>10. Deep Shredder 2x P3-935 5.0 41.0 20.25 >>11. Deep Junior 2x Athlon 1Ghz 5.0 40.5 18.50 >>12. Century 3.0 P3-866 4.5 45.5 21.25 >>13. Junior 6 Athlon 1,2 GHz 4.5 38.5 16.75 >>14. Triple-Brain 2 x Celeron 500 4.0 36.5 13.25 >>15. Shredder 5 Athlon 1,2 GHz 4.0 36.0 13.00 >>16. Fritz 6 P2-400 3.5 44.5 16.00 >>17. The King 2.54 P4-1300 3.5 38.0 14.25 >>18. Genius 6,5 P3-800 3.5 36.5 12.00 >>19. Nimzo 8 Athlon 1 GHz 3.0 36.0 10.75 >>20. Goliath Light Exp. Athlon 1,2 3.0 35.0 10.25 >>21. M- Chess 7.1 P3-500 2.5 35.0 8.25 >>22. CM 8000 Athlon 1,2 GHz 2.5 35.0 8.00 >>==================================== >> >>The URL: www.rebel.nl/r11-resu.htm >> >>For once have a look at this complete victory list and tell me which program >>has won so much tournaments? Answer: ONLY Chess Tiger! And you want to expel >>this program??? >> >>Another example is Paderborn 1999 the world championship all classes >>Shredder winning the tournament on a poor Pentium 550 above all the >>multi-processor entries: >> >>. Junior 4 x 500 Mhz >>. Fritz 4 x 500 Mhz >>. Ferret 4 x 400 Mhz >>. Cilkchess 240 x Alpha at 250 Mhz >>. P.ConNerS 186 x PII 450 Mhz >>. Zugzwang 512 x Alpha at 300 Mhz >> >>Bertil, you called me a hyprocrite in the CSS forum. Here on CCC you accused >>me of a campaigning against the SSDF. In email I asked you why I deserved >>such a public insult. You have ignored the email. > > >> >>It smells Bertil. And all of this because I am reporting Odyssey? I find >>this very very hard to believe. > >I have always loved the Rebel program and I have told you the main weaknesses in >Rebel. Mostly I have done it in email to you and the reason for that, only that >I want the program better and able to compare against the others. You have 30(?) >beta-testers is it really true that they haven't informed you about the >weaknesses? I am sure you could fix some of the problems in days! > >I didn't take part in the debate Rebel8,9,10 vs Century and the strength of >them, I haven't discussed the reasons that Rebel isn't ported to Windows. >Why? Because I liked you and Rebel a lot. As far as I remember I immediately >informed you about the learn-bug and/or the narrow book-line in Tiger12. >I also sent all the games to Jeroeen. Why? >> >>Furthermore I have seen the SSDF tester Lykke proudly announcing here on CCC >>his Deep Fritz - Deep Shredder game listed on the ChessBase site all well >>nicely documented with pictures, a clear case of an endorsement. And now >>this... What on earth are you doing??? You are killing your own creditability >>as SSDF as these kind of things are seriously questioning your status of >>being independant and are giving your known opponents only more ammunition >>to shoot. > >I don't know if he is proud. As far as I remember someone from the CSS-team >asked if they could publish the game after 8-10 moves and I believe in an even >position. > >No, I haven't received a cent for my cooperation. > >Bertil > >>I can not believe this is really happening. >> >>Ed >> >> >>>- Which program is stronger against humans? Who knows and who says they do >>>differently in comp-comp as opposed to human-comp. Besides, a "candidates" >>>with 20 programs and 20 first rate GMs that consists of enough games takes >>>ages and a huge amount of money nobody mentioned. >>> >>>- The "Qualifiers" will be played in a public place (by the way, beautiful, >>>with a great view over the bay :) ) >>> >>>- Programmers will send their latest babies and books, and all settings will >>>follow their instructions. >>> >>>- An international arbiter will be present for the event in case DS >>>participates. Otherwise the other two programmers don't seem to require an >>>arbiter. >>> >>>- But just in case, Bertil Eklund has been invited for the event. >>> >>>- The Cadaqués event is not to be hold in "closed session". In fact, >>>journalists, arbiter and other visitors will be present. Press and Internet >>>coverage will be substantial. >>> >>>- Programmers are free to develop their engines until October 1st, provided >>>that they will send regular updates to Kramnik. The idea is to avoid the >>>DB-Kasparov scenario, in which Kasparov had no idea of the opponent. >>> >>>- The entry fee will be returned to the programmers that won't win the >>>Qualifiers. >>> >>>- If a programmer feels entitled to play a given human player, he is more >>>than welcome to organize the match and find the funds. >>> >>>Bertil What I don't understand is why these other programers where not even given a chance to play in this event. Sure, it is possible that 8x1000 Deep Fritz would be stronger then a 1.3 ghz Gambit tiger, but then again, how is it that Shredder won the World Computer Championships ahead of all the big iron machines a mere PII 500(I think). As to inviting the all the SMP programs, what about P.Conners, Crafty, Amy, Patzer to name a few. Crafty is arguablly the most played engine on the ICC. P.Conners had that wonderful result around the same time as Deep Junior. Amy, Patzer, Diep and a few others are also SMP capable. Anyway, enjoy your Chessbase SMP championships, because thats all the credibility you will get out of this event. Hell, why bother with the qualification bs, just open the match to the highest bidder! JW
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.