Author: Bertil Eklund
Date: 08:00:46 04/16/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 16, 2001 at 05:33:47, Ed Schröder wrote: >On April 15, 2001 at 18:44:06, Bertil Eklund wrote: > > >>Here is some news about the upcoming event: >> >> >>- We invited 4 programs: DB and the Deeps of Fritz, Shredder and Junior. >>"We" is BGN and Enrique Irazoqui, with Bertil Eklund as consultant. > >A very nice couple. Both of them just recently called me a hypocrite >in the CSS forum. My sin: reporting the Odyssey tournament. Reason: >they dislike Thorsten Czub the organizer of Odyssey. Are you sure you will bring this up again? Your support of a man that time after time lies about Enrique, Djordje and SSDF to name a few. He has several times accused us for being paid, taking bribes and other horrible things. And your answer: "I know nothing". I can take that but I believe that the main reason that mr Irazoqui don't post here anymore isn't Thorsten's accusations but instead that you support mr Czub. As far as I remember there was a lot of heavy criticism in the CSS-Forum against your promotion of the Odysse-tournament and mr Czub. No I haven't said that mr Czub manipulates the results. >Why do you mention this Ed? > >Because I am in this business too long. Personal dislikes have become >the keyword expelling Rebel and Tiger. Absolutely ridicoulous! I have said several times that my favourite program is Tiger/Gambit. I have also said that I'm really sorry that there are no SMP-Tigers available. I truly believe that 8xDeep Shreeder or Fritz is much better then Tiger on one cpu. I have also said that I'm truly sorry for mr Theron that his excellent program can't compare under the given conditions. As far as I know, I think he agrees with that. As far as I remember, the only criticism from me against Shredder was that I found it to be weaker then Shredder4 in blitz at least on a slow (450) machine. I have said that I'm really impressed with Shredders positional play and of course the excellent endgame. I also mentioned the excellent auto-player in Shredder4/5. >>- DB is obvious. Fritz has been leading everything in computer chess, > >Only on SSDF. > >Which manual tournament Fritz has won the last 3 years? Almost every program has won some kind of a short tournament in few rounds. In the longer tournaments I have seen, I must said that Fritz probably has won the most and now the best is probably Tiger14. I believe it is better then Gambit but I'm not sure. > >Answer: NONE. Not many plays long tournaments manually. > > >>short of a Swiss open of 7 rounds that receives the name "world championship". > > >Ridiculous... > >There are only 2 programs playing in this world championship. Yes, but four was invited. Do you have any idea of the cost of a match against Kramnik? Can't this be a reason that they want the best SMP-program? >>Shredder is strong and got the 2 last titles, whatever they mean, although >>it never topped the SSDF list, never won long tournaments. Junior is also >>strong, was first in the SSDF list about a year ago, won some long >>tournaments, achieved a PR of 2702 last year in Dortmund. > >Agreed, but then.......... > >Tiger 12.0 coming from nothing topped the SSDF list. The new Tiger will >top your list soon. I guess you are right. > > >>The rest is either >>not strong enough or not SMP ready, which means they don't have a chance and >>their inclusion would only increase randomness. > >What an utter nonsense is that. You and Enrique should know better than that. >It is like Christophe said, all arranged behind the curtains, no way back. >Discrimination of the worst kind. If this kind of random event chooses the challenger, it could of course be Hiarcs on a 800-machine, Are you serious, that you believe Hiarcs on a slow machine is better then Deep-X on 8x1000? >In no way it is proven that a multi-processor program is doing better than >a single-processor program. Just look at the latest Ausfess tournament Tiger >13.0 (not 14.0) topping above all the multi-processing entries: > >================================================== >Tournament : Aufseß 2001 >Date : 13/03 to 17/03 >Type : 9 rounds Swiss >Time control : 3h/all > > 1. Chess-Tiger 13.0 Athlon 1,3 GHz 6.5 46.5 31.75 > 2. Hiarcs 7.32 Athlon 800 6.5 46.0 32.75 > 3. CM 6555 Athlon 1,2 GHz 6.0 45.5 29.00 > 4. SOS 11/2000 Athlon 800 5.5 44.5 26.25 > 5. Deep Fritz 2x P3 1 GHz 5.5 43.5 26.00 > 6. Gandalf 4.32h Athlon 1,2 GHz 5.5 36.5 20.25 > 7. Hiarcs 7.01 Athlon 1,0 5.0 45.0 24.00 > 8. Gambit-Tiger 1.0 P3-840 5.0 44.0 22.25 > 9. Shredder5 Erbsenzähler P3-1000 5.0 41.5 20.25 >10. Deep Shredder 2x P3-935 5.0 41.0 20.25 >11. Deep Junior 2x Athlon 1Ghz 5.0 40.5 18.50 >12. Century 3.0 P3-866 4.5 45.5 21.25 >13. Junior 6 Athlon 1,2 GHz 4.5 38.5 16.75 >14. Triple-Brain 2 x Celeron 500 4.0 36.5 13.25 >15. Shredder 5 Athlon 1,2 GHz 4.0 36.0 13.00 >16. Fritz 6 P2-400 3.5 44.5 16.00 >17. The King 2.54 P4-1300 3.5 38.0 14.25 >18. Genius 6,5 P3-800 3.5 36.5 12.00 >19. Nimzo 8 Athlon 1 GHz 3.0 36.0 10.75 >20. Goliath Light Exp. Athlon 1,2 3.0 35.0 10.25 >21. M- Chess 7.1 P3-500 2.5 35.0 8.25 >22. CM 8000 Athlon 1,2 GHz 2.5 35.0 8.00 >==================================== > >The URL: www.rebel.nl/r11-resu.htm > >For once have a look at this complete victory list and tell me which program >has won so much tournaments? Answer: ONLY Chess Tiger! And you want to expel >this program??? > >Another example is Paderborn 1999 the world championship all classes >Shredder winning the tournament on a poor Pentium 550 above all the >multi-processor entries: > >. Junior 4 x 500 Mhz >. Fritz 4 x 500 Mhz >. Ferret 4 x 400 Mhz >. Cilkchess 240 x Alpha at 250 Mhz >. P.ConNerS 186 x PII 450 Mhz >. Zugzwang 512 x Alpha at 300 Mhz > >Bertil, you called me a hyprocrite in the CSS forum. Here on CCC you accused >me of a campaigning against the SSDF. In email I asked you why I deserved >such a public insult. You have ignored the email. > >It smells Bertil. And all of this because I am reporting Odyssey? I find >this very very hard to believe. I have always loved the Rebel program and I have told you the main weaknesses in Rebel. Mostly I have done it in email to you and the reason for that, only that I want the program better and able to compare against the others. You have 30(?) beta-testers is it really true that they haven't informed you about the weaknesses? I am sure you could fix some of the problems in days! I didn't take part in the debate Rebel8,9,10 vs Century and the strength of them, I haven't discussed the reasons that Rebel isn't ported to Windows. Why? Because I liked you and Rebel a lot. As far as I remember I immediately informed you about the learn-bug and/or the narrow book-line in Tiger12. I also sent all the games to Jeroeen. Why? > >Furthermore I have seen the SSDF tester Lykke proudly announcing here on CCC >his Deep Fritz - Deep Shredder game listed on the ChessBase site all well >nicely documented with pictures, a clear case of an endorsement. And now >this... What on earth are you doing??? You are killing your own creditability >as SSDF as these kind of things are seriously questioning your status of >being independant and are giving your known opponents only more ammunition >to shoot. I don't know if he is proud. As far as I remember someone from the CSS-team asked if they could publish the game after 8-10 moves and I believe in an even position. No, I haven't received a cent for my cooperation. Bertil >I can not believe this is really happening. > >Ed > > >>- Which program is stronger against humans? Who knows and who says they do >>differently in comp-comp as opposed to human-comp. Besides, a "candidates" >>with 20 programs and 20 first rate GMs that consists of enough games takes >>ages and a huge amount of money nobody mentioned. >> >>- The "Qualifiers" will be played in a public place (by the way, beautiful, >>with a great view over the bay :) ) >> >>- Programmers will send their latest babies and books, and all settings will >>follow their instructions. >> >>- An international arbiter will be present for the event in case DS >>participates. Otherwise the other two programmers don't seem to require an >>arbiter. >> >>- But just in case, Bertil Eklund has been invited for the event. >> >>- The Cadaqués event is not to be hold in "closed session". In fact, >>journalists, arbiter and other visitors will be present. Press and Internet >>coverage will be substantial. >> >>- Programmers are free to develop their engines until October 1st, provided >>that they will send regular updates to Kramnik. The idea is to avoid the >>DB-Kasparov scenario, in which Kasparov had no idea of the opponent. >> >>- The entry fee will be returned to the programmers that won't win the >>Qualifiers. >> >>- If a programmer feels entitled to play a given human player, he is more >>than welcome to organize the match and find the funds. >> >>Bertil
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