Author: Uri Blass
Date: 12:10:13 05/07/01
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On May 07, 2001 at 14:29:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On May 07, 2001 at 12:40:22, Uri Blass wrote: > >> >>For me difference of more than +2 in the evaluation of Deeper blue and Crafty is >>convincing. >> >>I am not talking about the difference of 1.7 and 1.4. >>There is even a difference of more than 1 pawn between Deep Fritz's evaluation >>and Crafty's evaluation but Fritz can find the right pv. > >Just listen to what you just said. There is a difference of more than one pawn >but DF has the right PV. Difference of more than 1 pawn is not difference of more than 2 pawns and the difference between Deeper blue and crafty was of more than 2 pawns. Difference of more than 1 pawn can be a result of different evaluation but difference of more than 2 pawns is usually result of tactics. With DB you can _not_ see the PV. The first moves >are probably reasonable. The moves at the end might or might not be reasonable, >and the last 6 plies + extensions + captures are not seen _ever_. I mean to the second move in the pv that is not at the end of the pv and is almost the start of the pv when I say that deep blue has not the right pv Rf5+ Ke2... is the wrong pv of deeper blue. Rf5+ Ke3... is the right pv after Rf5+. > >Which simply shows that you can _not_ compare DB to _anything_ without all the >information... > > > > >> >>I cannot say 1.7 of Crafty is better than 1.4 of Deeper blue but I can say that >>4.x of Crafty and 3.x of other programs are better than 1.x of deeper blue and >>the evaluation of deeper blue was 1.x if you look at depth 15(the depth that >>Crafty found the line with Ke3) > >Count the pieces on the board, then look at king safety, and everything else. >Then you can _guess_ at what DB was evaluating compared to Crafty and the other >micro programs. But you can only _guess_. You are assuming they are seeing >_less_. What if they are seeing _more_??? How can you tell they aren't? You >can't. It is _all_ a guess... > > > > >> >>I am almost sure that Crafty can beat Deeper blue if Crafty searches the same >>depthes that deeper blue searched and my guess is that Crafty on an alpha is >>clearly better than deeper blue. >> >>Uri > > >Not a chance. It would be competitive, but only competitive, in that it would >not get run off the board in a match. It would lose decisively however... > >I ran a 10 game set vs Cray Blitz about a year ago (right after I first got the >quad xeon). I did it as a favor for someone wanting to test a T90 for >comparison to something I can't mention. I played the games at a time control >of 60 moves in 30 minutes. Cray Blitz won 6 and drew 3. There were only a >couple of games that were tactical busts... most were just endgame losses where >the Cray searched incredibly deep with its speed advantage... > >I call that a pretty decisive result. And that same program got stomped by the >predecessor of Deep Blue. There was only one game when Cray blitz with no bugs lost and one game proves nothing. Uri
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