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Subject: Re: Chess Solved More Simply

Author: Graham Laight

Date: 07:19:34 05/15/01

Go up one level in this thread


On May 15, 2001 at 09:45:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 15, 2001 at 06:03:11, Graham Laight wrote:
>
>>I still say it's quicker and easier to draw a graph of strength of players
>>plotted against proportion of draws.
>>
>>Since I don't have a copy of chessbase, the graph below is based on guesswork
>>rather than actual study - but here's a quick example of what it would probably
>>look like:
>>
>>Percentage Of Draws
>>
>>
>>100 |                                             *
>>    |                                        *
>>    |                                    *
>>    |                                 *
>>    |                              *
>>75  |                           *
>>    |                        *
>>    |                     *
>>    |                  *
>>    |               *
>>50  |            *
>>    |          *
>>    |        *
>>    |      *
>>    |    *
>>25  |  *
>>    |*
>>    |
>>    |
>>    |
>>0   |
>>    ------------------------------------------------------
>>    1000       1500       2000     2500     3000      3500
>>
>>                        Elo Rating
>>
>>
>>If this were accurate, the maximum possible Elo rating would be 3500, because
>>above this level, almost all games would end in draws.
>>
>>From this, one can calculate when computers will be able to play at the maximum
>>level. If normal (ie not Deeper Blue!) computers advance at about 100 Elo every
>>5 years, and they are currently at 2600, then they need another 900 Elo to play
>>perfect chess - which they will be doing in 45 years.
>>
>>And what ply depth will be needed to achieve this?  If they advance 1 ply every
>>3 years, then they will advance 15 ply in 45 years.
>>
>>So - in conclusion - to solve chess (or at least to play "perfect" chess),
>>computers need to search 15 ply deeper than they do now (and probably increase
>>their knowledge at the same rate as they're currently doing).
>>
>
>
>
>I don't like that definition of "perfect".  Just because they are nearly
>unbeatable, they won't be playing "perfect" at all...  You won't play
>perfect until you can prove a move from the starting position is a forced
>win, or else prove that all are forced draws.

In which case, you cannot prove that smoking causes lung cancer - because
although there's an excellent statistical correlation, nobody yet has actually
seen cigarette smoke cause lung tissue to become cancerous in real time in a
live human.

But of course, Bob is right - so the expression "perfect" should really be
changed to "beyond reasonable doubt".

So when such a computer + program plays a game, it will win almost all its
winning positions, and almost never lose a position which can be drawn.

-g

>>Again - all the figures in the previous 3 paragraphs are my guesses rather than
>>rigorous studies. Anybody who knows the numbers more accurately is welcome to
>>correct the figures.
>>
>>-g
>>



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