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Subject: Re: Deep Fritz won a correspondence game

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 04:53:07 05/16/01

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On May 16, 2001 at 07:40:23, Jeroen van Dorp wrote:

>On May 15, 2001 at 20:03:14, stuart taylor wrote:
>
>>>Some people might be too snobish to stoop so low as to rely on a computer over
>>his own mind.
>>Or simply, obstinate and closed-minded as to how good computers can be.
>
>
>Maybe it's not being snobbish, or denying the excellence of a computer program,
>but just missing the fun....
>
>Over at playchess.de a few computer cheaters were discovered, and that while
>they have the opportunity to play advanced or even computer chess in a separate
>competition.
>It showed a guy playing over 130 games with assistance from Fritz, under four
>accounts. He must have been busy operating, and he must have liked it, but
>(especially because on this site you DO have the opportunity to use a computer
>in two other leagues) people STILL use computer assistance in the *only* league
>they shouldn't - really spoils MY fun.
>
>Discussing the merits of cheating/computer assistance someone told that blunders
>never were a part of correspondence chess. Very true, but the suggestion rises
>that all correspondence games should end in a draw, because of no tactical
>mistakes.
>
>Not true, as small tactical mistakes - sometimes met with some nice novelties -
>*are* a part of correspondence chess. Playing as a human gives you the
>possibility to thrive on those weaknesses, and let the opponent stray.
>
>>
>>I, actually believe I could beat many computer users through intelligent use of
>>the same programs. But It takes a great amount of time and effort. But on wings.
>>(using the computer is like adding wings).
>
>
>With today's computer chess programs, you have to rely on 'horizon effects,
>unfavourable 'closed position', 'anti-computer play', almost completely
>"removing" the game of chess against a human. It's very well possible to draw or
>beat a computer program when you're at a higher level in correspondence chess.
>
>Your analogy "adding wings" gives the problem (for me) of legalizing "computer
>cheating" in correspondence chess a face: people in high jump trying to jump as
>high as possible with their body are allowed to use a plane to jump.
>Of course the world record will be a jump of over 30,000 feet, no doubt, but
>it's no human high jump anymore.
>
>When I see Uri citing the game, with the names of the 'players' in it, I realize
>it has nothing to do with human correspondence chess anymore.
>
>He likes it that way, and I'm happy to, but I won't enter those competitions
>(anymore). Just because (as I already said) I can stay safely at home and play
>against all the programs I have. Less than $500 - 700 and you have them all.
>It's very rewarding to see after a game that my computer programs weren't able
>to better my achievement in their analysis. Maybe I would have come to the same
>moves using all my computer programs, but it was *me* taking the initiative, and
>me finding the solution to an endfame I surely would screw up over the board.
>
>*I* think it's too bad seemingly human correspondence chess has disappeared.


Human correspondence chess did not disapear.

You can play against humans who do not use computers in the low level.
I believe that many of my opponents in the previous stage did not use a computer
and it is a fact that a big part of my opponents  did tactical errors.

Vaichel is better than them and he did not do a serious error(the score never
changed by more than 1 pawn after his moves but Deep Fritz was clearly enough to
beat him)

Uri



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