Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Xboard books

Author: Andrew Williams

Date: 13:30:51 05/21/01

Go up one level in this thread


On May 21, 2001 at 15:57:39, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:

>On May 21, 2001 at 13:43:55, Andrew Williams wrote:
>
>>On May 21, 2001 at 13:26:59, Pete Galati wrote:
>>
>>>On May 21, 2001 at 13:05:48, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 21, 2001 at 07:04:55, Pete Galati wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 21, 2001 at 02:56:10, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't understand why xboard/winboard doesn't support books on it's own. If it
>>>>>>did, no one would have to implement opening book in their engines unless they
>>>>>>wanted book learning and such. And even that could be supported by xb/wb. Even
>>>>>>if people didn't want to use this feature, they could just turn it off.
>>>>>>Many people are reinventing opening book features all the time. And it really
>>>>>>isn't as exciting as developing search or evaluation etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's not the nature of Xboard/Winboard.  The opening book is the Chess
>>>>>program's problem, not Xboard/Winboard's problem.  They're just there to give
>>>>>you an interface to the Chess program.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I know, but opening book support is so boringly simple, that it might as well be
>>>>the interface that does it. It is very boring to implement opening book in a
>>>>chess engine (at least for me), still, it can be done in really bad and really
>>>>good ways. Why not let the engine handle this? It would make any winboard
>>>>program, such as TSCP, have powerful openbook capabilities at hand.
>>>
>>>I agree, it does open some posibilities.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Besides, most of the programers won't want Tim Mann to be the one making the
>>>>>opening books for their programs, and my guess is that Tim Mann probably isn't
>>>>>interested in doing that either.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why would Tim Mann be doing it? If this is to be done in any kind of sane way,
>>>>users, programmers etc. should be able to build their own books, control
>>>>learning features etc. from the engine.
>>>
>>>I think Gian-Carlo Pascutto indicated that this is in the works already?  I'm
>>>surprised.  But I wonder if a special utility for buiding books for
>>>Winboard/Xboard will be included with them.  I can't picture building it into
>>>the gui.
>>>
>>>Pete
>>
>>There have been a few messages in the Winboard/Xboard mailing list. What is
>>being proposed seems to be a feature whereby a chess program could *delegate*
>>the task of choosing opening moves to some other program. In principle this
>>could be a specialized program, but it could equally be another chess program.
>>designed just to do this. The key thing is that the implementation wouldn't
>>require any change to existing chess programs, unless they wanted to take
>>advantage of this facility. Also, the changes to xboard would not be huge,
>>as the work of selecting moves would be done by another program, not by xboard.
>>Furthermore, the protocol for communicating with the "opening program" would be
>>similar to that used for normal chess programs.
>>
>>Andrew
>
>I planned to do this! it is in my to do list. I haven't implemented a book for
>my program so I thought that when I do it, It would be a "book adapter" that
>communicates with winboard and my program.
>The adapter plays the book moves until is out of it. Then, it passes to winboard
>the moves that my program decides.
>
>    Engine <==> Book Adapter <==> Winboard <==> Opponent engine
>
>I planned to do this for three reasons
>1) save time to other people to implement a book for new programs
>2) I can test my program against other weak engines with and w/o books
>3) I would learn multithreading programming, about which I know nothing (yet).
>In fact, I started to read something until my spare time shrunk a bit.
>
>Regards,
>Miguel

Hi Miguel,

It would probably be worth you joining the xboard mailing list. I'm afraid
I can't remember how I joined, but I expect it was via Tim Mann's chess page:

http://www.tim-mann.org/chess.html

I guess the messages I saw would be archived somewhere. They were both in the
last week or so.

Andrew



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.