Author: Graham Laight
Date: 00:32:27 08/11/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 09, 2001 at 22:00:50, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 09, 2001 at 18:15:40, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >>On August 09, 2001 at 16:36:56, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 09, 2001 at 11:29:30, Christopher A. Morgan wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>The following direct quotes are taken from the Braingames site, sponsor of the >>>>Kramnik v. Deep Fritz match. Disinformation reigns. Disinformation is >>>>information that is intended to mislead. >>>> >>>>?Chess champion to play 'smartest' supercomputer.? >>>> >>>>? ?Put it this way, the Deep Blue supercomputer that beat Kasparov in 1997 >>>>weighed 1.4 tons, was over 6ft high and needed 20 people to keep it running. The >>>>new Deep Fritz can run on a laptop. Even on a fast desktop machine it will be >>>>able to achieve the playing level of any incarnation of Deep Blue. I?ll let you >>>>draw your own conclusions as to what this is going to do to Kramnik.? Frederic >>>>Friedel of ChessBase.? >>> >>> >>>Note that this is the same guy that told Garry Kasparov how to prepare to beat >>>Deep Blue in 1997. Full of good advice and factual statements as you can see. >> >>Do you know Frederic? > > >Yes. I would not call him a friend, nor an enemy. Just an acquaintance. > > > > >> >>I don't know the full extent of the whole "Chessbase and CSS are evil" thing, >>and if there is a lot of truth to it, I don't know where the evil comes from. >> > > >I don't attribute "evil" to them. Just ridiculous statements, and the >perception that some of them know far more than they _really_ know. Which >is really dangerous to some. As Kasparov discovered, rather painfully. > > > > > >>Perhaps Frederic is evil. If you talk to Frederic, you won't get that >>impression. He is a very soft-spoken honest-sounding guy who seems to have a >>lot of intelligence and insight. >> >>Okay, so let's say that Frederic, doing the best he can to support his friend >>Gary, said some stupid stuff to Gary. Big deal. I have a hard time condemning >>people for doing occasional stupid things, otherwise I'd have to condemn myself >>next time I do something stupid, and that's going to happen in less than an >>hour, I bet. > > >Again, I don't think he is "evil" and hope I never suggested that. I would >directly state the following opinions, however: > >(1) he gave Kasparov woefully lacking advice about playing Deep Blue. By >convincing him that practicing against Fritz would be the best way to prepare, >he set the stage for a total debacle. Fritz was to Deep Blue as a western-flyer >red wagon is to an Indy Racer. Just to throw in my contribution here: Last year, at the WMCCC at Alexandra Palace London, I asked Frederic directly what advice he had given Gary Kasparov in the game against Deeper Blue. He replied that the only advice he had given was to play his normal game - which he admitted had been bad advice, because generally GK did better in those games where he played anti-computer chess. -g >(2) he is allowing _obviously_ misleading (and false) statements to stand on >their web site. IE that this program beat Deep Blue. That it is far stronger >than deep blue. That the hardware is a super-computer. Etc. Any of those >statements would be met by derision and laughter at any major computing >conference anywhere in the world. And I do mean _laughter_. > > > > > > >> >>>>?There is no guarantee, however, that Deep Fritz 7, designed by computer and >>>>chess specialists, is indeed the strongest chess computer ever created.? >>>> >>>>Deep Fritz is a chess program, of course, not a ?chess computer.? There is no >>>>mention whatsoever of the hardware to be used in the match and/or its comparison >>>>to Deep Blue, and for good reason, there is no comparison between the two. Deep >>>>Fritz is a child?s toy compared to the last Deep Blue. >>>> >>>>Supercomputer? Since when has a bundle of 8 PC microprocessors been considered >>>>a supercomputer? That Deep Fritz can achieve ?the playing level of any >>>>incarnation of Deep Blue? on a fast desktop machine is a completely false >>>>statement on its face, by many magnitudes, and Friedel knows it. >>> >>> >>>Of course it is false. an 8-way box has about as much in common with a >>>super-computer as does my calculator. Both are digital, but that is where >>>the simularities stop. This is basically marketing nonsense spun to justify >>>the huge prize fund and attract interest. If it blows up in his face, he is >>>going to look pretty silly. >> >>Could be. There could also be a few crazy reporters involved. I never fully >>believe any quote I read in the newspaper. >> >>I bet they are hyping it at least a bit. The lure would be almost impossible to >>resist, and it's not just they who'd do it. > >At least a "bit". A Cray T932 is about as close to an 8-way xeon box as that >Indy Racer is close to that red wagon above. If the chessbase web-site is going >to supply this kind of garbage, they ought to ask someone that has used a >supercomputer to find out what in the world such a thing is. Rather than using >a word they don't understand. If they stood up at (say) supercomputing and >said either of the following: (a) the 8-way xeon is a supercomputer; (b) the >8-way xeon is a vagina; I would not want to predict which would produce the >most laughter... :) > > > > > >> >>Imagine what IBM would say about DB now, if they brought it back. >> >>If you would like Frederic's email address I'm sure I can find it. >> >>bruce > > >I have his email. I get those marathon emails from him from time to time. > >But the hype about the 8-way DF box is simply ridiculous...
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