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Subject: Re: Can Deep Fritz 7 find better moves than Deep Blue in 1997 ??

Author: Jay Rinde

Date: 20:00:34 08/11/01

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On August 11, 2001 at 22:14:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 11, 2001 at 13:56:37, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On August 11, 2001 at 08:40:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 11, 2001 at 03:43:37, Mark Young wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 10, 2001 at 17:45:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 10, 2001 at 14:18:15, Theo van der Storm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 10, 2001 at 13:25:10, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>>>>On August 10, 2001 at 02:57:51, Peter Berger wrote:
>>>>>>...
>>>>>>>>I don't think many reporters were really thinking of this Hongkong game. More
>>>>>>>>likely they were confused by the qualifier against Deep Junior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On the other hand here's what journalists world-wide use
>>>>>>as a reference to the history of computer-chess:
>>>>>>http://www.braingames.net/index.php?f=chess_center/events&p=mvm_history
>>>>>>Evidently the list has been carefully designed with regard to
>>>>>>the information that has been left out.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is also wrong in at least one place.  Cray Blitz never had "one processor
>>>>>per square".  That was HiTech, but some incompetent got it wrong.  And then
>>>>>they have Fritz beating Deep Blue in 1995, before it existed.  That was deep
>>>>>thought.
>>>>
>>>>It was reported at the time in Chess Life, or Inside chess that Deep Thought had
>>>>some kind of hardware problem. This problem slowed down the search speed of Deep
>>>>Thought. Do you know if that report was accurate? If I remember correctly Deep
>>>>thought played one bad move caused by this problem, which cost Deep Thought the
>>>>game. It was reported that a correctly running Deep Thought was able to play the
>>>>correct and saving move in a matter of seconds.
>>>
>>>
>>>What happened was that Deep Thought's communication link was broken.  Which
>>>killed the program.  It was pondering correctly and it had found a reasonable
>>>move that would have avoided the instant loss.  They reconnected, and then
>>>restarted the program and it moved much quicker than it should have because
>>>it was started "cold" and the time was set which lost a good bit of time.
>>>
>>>If not for the comm failure, the game most likely would have ended differently,
>>>but things happen.
>>
>>It means that the Deep thought made a bad job in explaining the problems
>>after the game.
>>
>>I read in the israeli chess newspaper after the game that the Deep thought
>>team explained after the game that Fritz3 surprised them in the opening.
>>They said nothing about the comm failure that is a more convincing excuse.
>
>I don't know what you read/heard, but the comm failure was reported when the
>game was over.  That's when I first heard about it.  I believe that the DB
>team has also mentioned this in several of their talks.  Most likely the
>reporter that wrote the story you read simply didn't ask the right people,
>or else reported based on incomplete or inaccurate quotes...  Happens all the
>time in the press...
>
>
>
>
>>
>>I also agree that without c4 the result could be different(I know that
>>at least it was the case in genius3-genius3 game
>>and I did not check the new programs)
>>
>>  They lost a game at the last ACM event due to a monster
>>>thunderstorm knocking out power to the Watson phone system.  Deep Thought was
>>>on a huge UPS in the lab, but the phones were dead and after two hours, the
>>>game was given up as unplayable so the next round could be paired.  They _still_
>>>won the event cleanly (no need of tie-breaks).
>>
>>I think that the rules should be changed and if
>>there is an objective problem of phone connection or internet connection
>>the game should be delayed.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>The rule says that if there is a network/communication problem, the clock
>can be stopped.  But there are limits.  It became obvious that if the game
>was attempted later, pairings for round 2 (round 1 was at something like 1 or
>2pm in the afternoon, round 2 was set for 7 pm that evening if I recall
>correctly) would be impossible to complete.  After a lot of discussion with
>the participants, it was decided by the TD (with the ACM computer chess
>committee involved as well as all the participants) that a forfeit was the
>only possible result.  The normal phone system didn't go dead. The PBX at
>IBM Watson was the problem.  Deep Thought was still running as it had a big
>battery backup available.  The normal phone system was up (we were using a
>phone link to Minneapolis to access our Cray C90.  Private hardware failures
>are really not well covered by the rules, which say that if it is not a comm
>failure, you can stop your clock no more than twice, for a total of 40 minutes
>total time.  The general consensus was that the rule fit and was applied.  None
>of us liked it, and it was a nice result that DT won the event in spite of that
>forfeit...

I don't have my copies of the Chess Reports from ICD anymore.  But there was
quite a bit about the Fritz3/Deep Thought game in them.  It seemed that every
one thought the Fritz win was a fluke, Fritz cheated, or it had some kind of a
killer book.  As I remember it had something to do with Deep Thoughts 10th move.
 I read nothing from all the reports that claimed a comm failure.  I'm not
saying it didn't happen.  Just that this is the first I've heard about it.  Jay



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