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Subject: Re: Fine 70 same 7 engines

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:36:51 09/07/01

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On September 07, 2001 at 02:14:17, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On September 06, 2001 at 13:58:00, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>Do you assume that all programs use the same extensions?
>>
>>I can imagine that programs with more extensions can see it in less plies even
>>with perfect move ordering.
>
>If you write a program that has a functional hash table, no null-move pruning, a
>sensible eval, and so on, it will solve this problem in no time at between 18
>and 26 plies, which is approximately what Bob said.
>
>What is happening here is that Tiger is doing very badly.  I am pretty good at
>screwing up Fine 70.  Assuming that Tiger's hashing system is not simply broken,
>my bet is that he's doing null-move in some tricky way in the king + pawn ending
>and/or he's doing some sort of reduced depth search that's eating his hash
>table.
>
>It's hard to know what anyone would extend here.  The problem is not really
>vulnerable to extensions.  It's a coordinate squares problem.  The kings move
>around and black is zugzwang'd and white simply wins the f5 pawn.  There are no
>checks, no recaptures, etc.
>
>I've never found anything that works better here than an implementation of
>alpha-beta that could be taken straight out of Knuth.  With a transposition hash
>table, of course.
>
>bruce


I don't think it is extensions.  I think it is a forward-pruning problem.  When
you store results learned after forward pruning, you can wreck things for many
plies to come...



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