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Subject: Re: f3?? from deepblue-kasparov game 5 match1

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:19:22 09/18/01

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On September 18, 2001 at 16:56:17, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On September 17, 2001 at 11:23:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 17, 2001 at 03:41:56, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>How about looking at the position that results in the game forced after f3 e3,
>>>and then evaluating that from human viewpoint?
>>
>>I don't think the "human viewpoint" matters here one iota.  We are talking
>>about chess engines preferring f3.  Not humans.  If today's programs prefer
>>f3 after very deep searches, then I find it hard to criticize DB for doing the
>>same after a much shorter search.
>
>I'm not criticizing the machine, man the thing is 6 years old
>and in we didn't do much better at P133s and pentiumpro's.

4 years old, not 6 years old (2001 - 1997 = 4).



>
>The main point is that the f3 move is losing bigtime and chanceless and
>that DB has completely missed Bh5 as a response from computer viewpoint
>and its endgame evaluation of course also missed that f3 e3 is a simple
>technical win, just like many evaluations of today still do, meaning in
>short that it's very easy to explain why it played f3.

How do you know it missed Bh5?  Ferret says F3 and gx are roughly the same
after a very deep search.  I see no reason to criticize any program until
you are _sure_ yours won't switch to f3 after hours (or days) of searching.



>
>f3 is not the best move in this position by any means. When computersearches
>already show it's -5 then that proves my point bigtime, of course they
>miss the next 30 moves which are needed to conquer chanceless all the other
>pawns from white.


Of course the other move goes to -5 also...

>
>If you already say -5 without seeing those 30 moves then the proof is
>very clear!
>
>Best regards,
>Vincent



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