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Subject: Re: Is there any forced pos. which 36 hrs+1.4GHz. Athlon will not solve?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:47:34 10/12/01

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On October 12, 2001 at 14:34:04, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 12, 2001 at 14:26:18, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 12, 2001 at 13:32:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On October 12, 2001 at 11:24:03, Daniel Clausen wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi
>>>>
>>>>On October 12, 2001 at 10:23:07, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>>First try the Nolot test positions for 36 hours.  Then report back with
>>>>>your "finding".  :)
>>>>
>>>>And where exactly is the proof that the so-called solutions of these tests
>>>>really are the best? Or is it more like opening theory where the so-called
>>>>book moves just happen to be considered best/good by a large number of
>>>>people, whereas it's possible that white to move is lost from the beginning
>>>>(due to ZugZwang ;) and the best defense is a3? (maybe followed by h6! hee)
>>>>
>>>>Sargon
>>>
>>>
>>>Some of them are provably correct (almost all in fact).  But they take
>>>far longer than 36 hours.
>>>
>>>If you really think 36 hours will solve _any_ problem, then you must think
>>>that computers are unbeatable at correspondence chess?  They are _far_ from
>>>it in fact...
>>
>>I do not think that 36 hours are enough for every problem but beating a program
>>at correspondence game is not going to prove the question of the original poster
>>because he asked for as position that no program can solve
>
>It should be of course no top program because it is easy to build a lot of
>programs when always one of them will solve the position that you ask.
>
>You only need to write about 200 program by the following idea if you do not ask
>for top programs
>
>The first program is build to
>play the first move in the list of the legal moves.
>
>The second program is build to play the second move in the list of the legal
>moves or the first move if there is only onelegal move.
>
>The 50th program always play the 50th move in the move list or the first move if
>there are less than 50 legal moves.
>
>I think that the shirov Bh3's sacrifice is a good example for a position that no
>top program of today can solve in 36 hours.
>
>Uri


That is a good one, yes.  Another interesting set of positions would be
the "key" positions in the old Mike Valvo vs Deep Thought two-game match
played on r.g.c several years ago.  There were some positions (one where he
offered a pawn) that I don't think _any_ program will decline, yet it led to
a very deep forced loss.  There are a number of such positions.  I tried the
Bh3 position for a while and managed to make crafty play it by  fiddling with
the evaluation.  But The resulting "settings" were way beyond non-reasonable
and were only interesting to show how far a program had to be "warped" to think
that Bh3 was winning when the program couldn't see the win tactically (it was
a tactical position of course, and I eventually made crafty solve it
positionally, which was not very interesting for long-range chess skill).



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