Author: Mark Young
Date: 06:09:56 11/08/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 08, 2001 at 09:00:15, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >On November 08, 2001 at 08:55:40, Mark Young wrote: > >>On November 08, 2001 at 08:49:13, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >> >>>On November 08, 2001 at 08:32:02, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On November 08, 2001 at 07:54:59, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 06:59:22, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 06:35:18, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Can anyone here beat the "best" prog in 40/120 without using anti comp >>>>>>>strtegies? on atleast an Athlon 1000? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I have seen a lot of post where people draw the comps when trying to do nothing >>>>>>>but that, but i am yet to see someone not using anti comp strategies beat them >>>>>>>in a 40/120 on fast hardware..... anyone up for the challenge? >>>>>> >>>>>>What's the point of not playing anticomputer strategies? >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>GCP >>>>> >>>>>The point being: 1. A GM of conciderable strength would not play anti comp. >>>> >>>>You don't know the history of computers Vs. GM players. This is not correct. >>>> >>>>[Event "Chess Meeting 2000 Super"] >>>>[Site "Dortmund"] >>>>[Date "2000.07.12"] >>>>[Round "5"] >>>>[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"] >>>>[Black "Junior 6"] >>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>[ECO "D00"] >>>>[WhiteElo "2770"] >>>>[PlyCount "65"] >>>>[EventDate "2000.07.07"] >>>> >>>>1. d4 d5 2. e3 Nf6 3. Bd3 e6 4. f4 Be7 5. Nf3 c5 6. c3 O-O 7. Nbd2 Ng4 8. Qe2 >>>>c4 9. Bc2 f5 10. Rg1 Nc6 11. h3 Nf6 12. g4 Ne4 13. Qg2 g6 14. Qh2 Kh8 15. h4 >>>>Nxd2 16. Bxd2 fxg4 17. Ng5 Qe8 18. h5 gxh5 19. Rxg4 Rf6 20. Rh4 Rh6 21. O-O-O >>>>a5 22. Rh1 b5 23. Bd1 Ra7 24. Bxh5 Qf8 25. e4 Bd8 26. f5 b4 27. Bg6 Rxh4 28. >>>>Qxh4 bxc3 29. bxc3 Bf6 30. Qxh7+ Rxh7 31. Rxh7+ Kg8 32. Bf7+ Qxf7 33. Rxf7 1-0 >>> >>>My dad tought me 4 years ago that the stonewall (in this case transposed) was >>>the way to beat comps, cause he had used this line to beat comps since the >>>70's!! >>>> >>>>[Event "Chess Meeting 2000 Super"] >>>>[Site "Dortmund"] >>>>[Date "2000.07.15"] >>>>[Round "8"] >>>>[White "Junior 6"] >>>>[Black "Piket, Jeroen"] >>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>[ECO "B15"] >>>>[BlackElo "2649"] >>>>[PlyCount "68"] >>>>[EventDate "2000.07.07"] >>>> >>>>1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 c6 4. Nf3 d5 5. h3 a6 6. Bf4 Nf6 7. e5 Nfd7 8. Qd2 e6 >>>>9. Bg5 Qb6 10. O-O-O h6 11. Be3 Qc7 12. h4 b5 13. Bf4 Nb6 14. a3 N8d7 15. Kb1 >>>>a5 16. Na2 Qa7 17. g4 Bf8 18. c3 Ba6 19. Qe1 Nc4 20. Bd2 Be7 21. Nc1 Ndb6 22. >>>>h5 g5 23. Na2 Kd7 24. Bc1 Rhb8 25. Ka1 b4 26. Nd2 Nxd2 27. Bxd2 Bxf1 28. Rxf1 >>>>Nc4 29. Rb1 b3 30. Nc1 Bxa3 31. Qd1 Qb6 32. bxa3 b2+ 33. Ka2 bxc1=N+ 34. Qxc1 >>>>Qxb1+ 0-1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>2.If a program has a fault which can be taken advantage of by using anti comp >>>>>strategies making it look like a 2000 player there is no point in playing it. >>>> >>>>You don't know if anti-computer play will work until you try it. ChessTiger did >>>>not have any problem with anti-computer play...that resulted in a loss when it >>>>scored a TPR of 2788. >>> >>>My point was not: see if you can find new anti comp stretegies, my point was: >>>can anyone beat a prog (top 5) when not using anti comp, meaning: playing it >>>like any other opponent! >>> >>>>>just like using the same line to beat the comp to determine it's strength. >>>>>3. Is anyone here capable of beating the comp under these conditions?? >>>> >>>>Anticomputer play should be used if the player wishes. You don't know if >>>>anti-computer play will work or not. Besides there are many types of >>>>anti-computer play, and it would not be fair to claim or not claim anti-computer >>>>play if the human wins. >>>> >>>I did not say that in general people should not be allowed the use of anti comp >>>play. >>>I repeat myself: can anyone here beat a top 5 prog without using anti comp >>>strategies at 40/120 on fast hardware? >> >>You could claim anti-computer on any human win....That is the point, but I say >>even with anti-computer play no one here is good enough to beat ChessTiger even >>with anti-computer play. >> >>> >>>Regards >>>Jonas > >And any human v human win could be concidered anti human too, don't you see the >difference between playing the board and playing the man? You are asking a question for which we already know the answer. There is no one here good enough to beat a top program under your conditions. It seems if you are not in the top 100 best chess players in the world you don't stand a chance beating a top program in a match without using anti-computer play. Even with anti-computer play and a top 100 GM player you still may not win, as GM Huebner found out. > >Regards >Jonas
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