Author: Otello Gnaramori
Date: 06:45:50 11/28/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 28, 2001 at 09:25:32, Drazen Marovic wrote: >Something also you may think about is that, sometimes during play one is forced >to play an inferior move. The player is well aware that the move is inferior, >however it is done in many cases to avoid a draw and allow ones opponent further >chances to go wrong. Many times you may see a weaker player having a much >better position than his opponent, he offers a draw. The stronger player >declines the draw which is seemingly foolhardy, because he knows he is worse, >but he believes his opponent will go wrong allowing him to win. Frequently the >inferior move makes the position much more complicated, and thus increases >winning chances. Further the weaker move does not have to be losing at all, it >just make defense more difficult than some other move, but a sportsman takes his >chances to win. This kind of tricks can works among club players not among world class one's IMHO. Regards. > >> >>dont get me wrong, i am very well aware that the best we have in this sport is >>what we call a super GM. against other humans these guys seem to be >>unbelievable. >>But today we have our programs exposing their inferior play. no i do not expect >>perfect play from a gm or super gm. but we can analyize their games like never >>before. gm and super gms have always had the luxury that no one could really >>rate their play except another high rated player or another gm. >>in the old days, we would try to go through each move of a gm game, we would be >>thinking, what is he trying to accomplish here, what is the purpose of this >>line, positional, material etc. then when finished we would wonder, well maybe >>i missed something, or maybe i dont really understand the position. >>but lesser players dont have this problem today. >>we have our programs. >>i constantly see remarks posted here, about how todays programs "dont >>understand" or todays programs "cant see". thats ok too. i also have analyized >>many of these positions too, that programs cannot see. there are many of these >>examples. and many that post here say todays programs are not gm level. maybe >>not----but if you want to see what the true level of a gm or super gm is---just >>take some of their games and run them through todays programs. you will see >>terrible blunders, many moves that indicate that our very best do not truly >>understand many positions. we all respect these guys, but one thing i have >>learned about these elite----our programs say that these guys make many >>mistakes, and constantly play into positions that they do not understand. >> >>below is an example. anand passes up this position, and instead plays Qd3. >>super gm anand, did not see what todays programs can see. my experience in >>analyzing gm games has shown that in most super gm or gm games, there is usually >>several moves misunderstood by the players. maybe programs are not GM level, but >>todays programs constantly understand positions that GMs dont. >> >>here it is blacks move, with anand (white) up almost 4 points if he had played >>into this position. >> >> [D] 1r1q1rk1/pPp2pp1/7p/b6Q/3P4/P7/2B2PPP/1RB3K1 b - - >> >> Engine: Shredder 5 >>best move: Qd1-h5 time: 1:07.769 min n/s: 216.023 nodes: 14.638.201 >> 8.01 0:00 -2.42 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Bb6 26.Bb3+ Kh7 >>27.Bf4 Qe7 28.Bd5 Rfe8 29.Be5 Rbd8 30.Qh3+ Kg6 (196.981) 222.5 >> 9.01 0:01 -2.42 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Bb6 26.Bb3+ Kh7 >>27.Bf4 Qe7 28.Bd5 Rfe8 29.Be5 Rbd8 30.Qh3+ Kg6 (285.571) 223.9 >> 10.01 0:15 -2.58 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Rf7 25.Bb3 Kh7 26.Bxf7 Qxf7 >>27.Bxg7 Qxg7 28.Qxf5+ Qg6 29.Qh3+ Kg7 30.Qd7+ Qf7 31.Qc8 Qf8 (3.500.185) 222.6 >> 11.01 0:34 -2.83-- 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Rf7 25.Bb3 Kh7 26.Bxf7 Qxf7 >>27.Bxg7 Qxg7 28.Qxf5+ Qg6 29.Qh3+ Kg7 30.Rb3 Rh8 31.b8Q Qxg2+ 32.Kxg2 >>(7.378.608) 216.9 >> 11.01 1:00 -3.15 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Rf7 25.Bb3 Kh8 26.Bxf7 Qxf7 >>27.Rb5 gxh6 28.Qxh6+ Qh7 29.Qf6+ Qg7 30.Qh4+ Qh7 31.Qxh7+ Kxh7 32.Rxf5 Bb6 >>33.Rh5+ Kg8 34.Rg5+ (13.387.328) 219.9 >> 12.01 2:54 -3.40-- 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Rf7 25.Bb3 Kh8 26.Bxf7 Qxf7 >>27.Rb5 gxh6 28.Qxh6+ Qh7 29.Qf6+ Qg7 30.Qxf5 Bb6 31.Qe6 (37.246.682) 213.6 >> 12.01 4:12 -3.63 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Qxd4 26.Be3 Qg4 >>27.Qxg4 fxg4 28.Bxa7 Bb6 29.Bxb6 cxb6 30.Rxb6 Rfe8 31.Kf1 Re7 32.Bb3+ Kf8 >>(53.904.887) 213.4 >> 12.03 5:49 -3.62++ 22...Be1 23.Be3 Re8 24.Rxe1 Rxb7 25.Qc5 Qf6 26.f3 c6 >>27.d5 Rb6 (74.066.905) 211.7 >> 12.03 6:31 -3.57 22...Be1 23.Be3 Re8 24.Rxe1 Rxb7 25.Qf5 g6 26.Qf3 Rb2 >>27.Be4 (82.405.109) 210.5 >> 13.01 10:33 -3.65 22...Be1 23.Be3 Qd7 24.Rxe1 Rxb7 25.Qf3 Rb6 26.Qe4 f5 >>27.Qf3 Qd6 28.Bf4 Qxd4 (132.369.299) 209.0 >> 13.02 13:30 -3.64++ 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Qxd4 26.Be3 Qg4 >>27.Qxg4 fxg4 28.Bxa7 Bb6 29.Bxb6 cxb6 30.Rxb6 Rfe8 31.Kf1 Re7 32.Bb3+ Kf8 33.Bd5 >>(169.897.587) 209.7 >> 13.02 19:07 -3.63 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Qxd4 26.Be3 Qg4 >>27.Qxg4 fxg4 28.Bxa7 Bb6 29.Bxb6 cxb6 30.Rxb6 Rf6 31.Rb4 Rc6 32.Bb3+ >>(240.003.656) 209.1 >> 14.01 49:18 -3.60 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Qxd4 26.Be3 Qg4 >>27.Qxg4 fxg4 28.Bxa7 Bb6 29.Bxb6 cxb6 30.Rxb6 Rfe8 31.Kf1 Kf8 32.Bb3 >>(618.461.539) 209.0 >> 15.01 165:21 -3.85-- 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Qxd4 26.Bb3+ Kh7 >>27.Bf4 g5 28.Qxg5 Qf6 29.Qh5+ Kg7 30.Qf3 Rfe8 31.Qg3+ Kh7 32.Bg5 Qg7 33.Qh4+ Kg6 >>34.Bf4 Re1+ 35.Rxe1 (2.046.741.453) 206.2 >> 15.01 248:59 -3.86 22...f5 23.Bxh6 Qe8 24.Qg5 Qd7 25.Qg3 Rf6 26.Be3 Kf8 >>27.Qh3 Qd5 28.Bg5 Rxb7 29.Rxb7 Qxb7 30.Qh8+ Kf7 31.Qh5+ Kf8 -82.-2 >> 15.03 311:41 -3.85++ 22...Be1 23.Be3 Re8 24.Rxe1 Rxb7 25.Qf5 g6 26.Qf3 Rb2 >>27.Bxh6 Rxc2 28.Qxf7+ -24.-4 >> 15.03 330:03 -3.79 22...Be1 23.Be3 Re8 24.Rxe1 Rxb7 25.Qf5 g6 26.Qa5 c6 >>27.Qc3 Rc7 -11.-8 >>best move: Ba5-e1 time: 407:24.644 min n/s: 29.247 nodes: 714.947.499 >> >>kburcham
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