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Subject: Re: Tiger Endgame Shock

Author: Sune Larsson

Date: 04:59:00 12/24/01

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On December 24, 2001 at 07:42:59, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 24, 2001 at 07:10:48, Sune Larsson wrote:
>
>>On December 24, 2001 at 02:51:59, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On December 24, 2001 at 00:23:18, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [D]8/k1p5/P7/8/2K4p/1p4rP/6P1/1R6 w - - 0 47
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a possible position from the first game Gambit Tiger - IM Berg.
>>>> While playing out different endings vs Tiger, I stumbled upon this little
>>>> intermezzo. Previous moves were: 45.-Nxc4 46.Kxc4 h4  /diagram.
>>>>
>>>> Tiger here ponders on and plays 47.Rxb3, with an eval of -0.78 - just to
>>>> find itself in the misery of -11.36, a single move later...
>>>>
>>>> I played out this ending on a PIII 800, 192 Mb hash, 1 hour per player.
>>>>
>>>> Would have made a great testposition, but after the better 47.Kb5 black
>>>> just have to find 47.-Rg8! 48.Kc6 Rb8! which also wins.
>>>>
>>>> For a human it's easy to see that a move like 47.Rxb3 loses quickly for
>>>> white, but Tiger - (and maybe other programs) - has clear problems here.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I think that it is not so easy for humans to see it
>>
>>
>>  Okey, I reasoned like this. "After the takings on b3 there is a pawn ending.
>>  If I remove the 3 pawns on the king's side it's a draw - coming stalemate.
>>  But in the above position white sometimes must play g4 or g3 and black takes
>>  and promotes." Why calculate specific variations?
>>
>>  Sune
>
>If you do not use previous knowledge about
>similiar positions you have to calculate
>in order not to get into the wrong conclusion.


>
>if the pawn is on the d file and not on the c file
>then it is a draw
>
>[D]8/4k3/3p4/8/2K4p/7P/6P1/8 b - -
>
>Uri


 But this position wins for black.

 [D]8/8/2kp4/8/2K4p/7P/6P1/8 b - - 0 1

 If the pawn is on the d-file, I wouldn't have been sure of the outcome,
 when just looking at the position. But with the pawn on the c-file,
 my eyes told me that the distance between "c" and "g" is too much for the
 white king.

 Sune



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