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Subject: Re: How Flexible opinions are: DB and further

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:02:07 06/28/98

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On June 28, 1998 at 06:20:06, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>
>
>>>I see that normal evaluation of DB is 8 clocks now and
>>>only done 20% (!) of the cases.
>>>
>>>So they're kind of lazy evaluating. Didn't know it could be done in 80% of
>>>the times, meaning that their window to lazy evaluate is quite small, meaning
>>>that the *reach* of the evaluation is not big.
>>>
>>
>>doesn't mean that at all.  You seem to be able to measure the mass of a
>>rock, and compute the total number of atoms in the universe, without having
>>a clue about anything else.
>
>So you don't have arguments against. I already posted that.
>This is the x-th clear evidence how stupid their eval is.
>
>Lot of patterns in eval ==> huge deviation ==> huge window needed
>to lazy cutoff (if you use lazy cutoffs).
>
>Clear. simple. no discussion about.
>
>Vincent
>
>>>The more knowledge is in your evaluation, the bigger the terms can differ,
>>>the wider the window that comes out of evaluation, the less you can
>>>lazy evaluate. My window out of evaluation is usually around [-12 pawns;12pawns]
>>>that's positional score, where usual the black score
>>>compensates for say 11 pawns the 11 pawns of white (getting an evaluation
>>>of 0 then), but sometimes this isn't the case, causing huge window
>>>differences.
>>>
>>>Hyatt your turn. Better cut and never paste this, he he. this is the x-th
>>>hint to that evaluation is not having that a depth.
>>
>>
>>nope... it only shows ignorance of hardware.  And here's a hint:  the
>>ignorance is *not* on my part.
>
>
>>I see *nothing* that says an evaluation has to produce evaluations that
>>are +/- 12.  But you need to read about Belle and the fast/slow evaluations
>>before you write more.. then you'll understand what this is all about.
>
>It seem that you have *no idea* about what a huge evaluation means.
>It means for example you can't do a lazy evaluation like that.
>
>I have chess computer compendium. And i did read about Belle in that book.
>
>More interesting than that is the research of
>Paradise. When i got (thanks!) that paper about Paradise i found
>the nullmove idea was already implemented in Paradise in 1979.
>
>I got amazed by the number of rules that were implemented.
>Too bad that those were needed to search instead of evaluating.
>
>>>Can some known lazy evaluators say what % of nodes they can do
>>>lazy, and what window is needed to get 80%?
>
>What window do you need to get 80%, and what window have you
>set?
>
>Vincent


Doesn't depend as much on the "window" as it does on the "eval".  Nothing
says an eval has to produce scores of +/- 24.  If you are down a rook, you
can quickly decide whether you can offset that with positional scoring or
not.  Just takes clever programming...



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