Author: Komputer Korner
Date: 09:17:15 06/30/98
Go up one level in this thread
On June 29, 1998 at 23:09:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On June 29, 1998 at 22:21:49, Don Dailey wrote: > >>On June 29, 1998 at 19:53:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On June 29, 1998 at 18:33:36, Bruce Moreland wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>On June 29, 1998 at 13:28:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 29, 1998 at 12:39:13, Bruce Moreland wrote: >>>> >>>>>>I am merely stating that it can't be said that null-move is bad just because DB >>>>>>doesn't do it. >>>> >>>>>there I'd agree. They are so much faster/stronger than the rest of us, that >>>>>whether they use null-move or not is probably inconsequential. I believe that >>>>>null-move would make them even stronger, but Hsu has this "perfection" syndrome >>>>>that refuses to accept any error at all unless it is unavoidable. With null- >>>>>move, you instantly agree to accept errors, in return for more depth that might >>>>>catch errors you didn't agree to accept. >>>> >>>>You have seen where this attitude gets you on a micro, I am sure, and my point >>>>is that once you have learned to jettison this attitude, I don't think you'll >>>>take it back if you get the horsepower again. >>>> >>>>>without a doubt correct, although I probably lean a little backward toward Cray >>>>>Blitz now, since parallel processing has boosted my speed enough, I'm now trying >>>>>to find time to investigate things that I found useful in CB, like singular >>>>>extensions, for one example. I'd like to one day try null-move R=2 on CB, but >>>>>it would be *very* difficult to do since all that stuff is in assembly language. >>>>>But I'd like to know how that affects the thing since I *never* tried it, never >>>>>even tried recursive null-move in fact.. >>>> >>>>I bet there would be a dramatic improvement. >>>> >>>>My feeling is based upon running Ferret with and without null-move during its >>>>evolution. Null-move is always dramatically better overall on extended tactical >>>>tests. >>>> >>>>>they had a lot of pressure from us. We were never slow, and almost beat them >>>>>the first time we played them, but a cute SMP bug made us avoid a outright >>>>>winning move that they were expecting, and we were going to play, until the >>>>>last minute. >>>>> >>>>>In fact, they never "overwhelmed" us in speed, since they were doing 2-3M nodes >>>>>per second in deep thought II, while we were only doing 1/4 of that or so at >>>>>the time. As a result, their stick wasn't "that big", only a factor of 4 or >>>>>so. But other things were certainly working for them in our games, like SE >>>>>for one. >>>> >>>>How many times did you play them? >>>> >>>>bruce >>> >>>4. first time we could have won. last three we were just busted. They see >>>too much. >> >>I really don't think you are correct to draw these conclusions from >>only 4 games. You make it seem like you had no chance whatsoever, >>and I have no doubt whatsover that this is how you felt as you watched >>your own brainchild lose to them. >> >>You might very well be right but your last statement isn't exactly >>convincing evidence, "first time we could have won, last threee we >>were just busted. They see too much." >> >>Re-think this please. We are talking about Deep Thought, not Deep >>Blue. I would prefer to see 30 or 40 games with a lopsided score >>before I would agree with you. Cray Blitz was no slouch. >> >>- Don > > >no it wasn't.. but remember, I had the opportunity to sit across the tabe >from them (I have a eyboard bug that has me without the characters between >j and m.) and got to see their output with ours. remember the game I posted >ast year where they saw winning a piece 10 moves before CB saw it? That >happened every game we ran into them. Happened to most everybody e.se as >we.., based on resu.ts > >I watched them wax CB, HiTech, *socrates, *tech, .achex, and near.y everyone >they p.ayed during that period of time... I'm convinced of their strength, >because probabi.ity on.y ta.es you so far (hate this .eyboard) Bob are you saying that you don't have any K's. I have an extra one or 2. I can send them if you wish:)))))))) -- Komputer Korner
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