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Subject: Re: Strategy vs Tactics in Computer Programs

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 16:58:55 04/20/02

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On April 20, 2002 at 19:53:13, Uri Blass wrote:

>On April 20, 2002 at 19:16:01, Russell Reagan wrote:
>
>>On April 20, 2002 at 18:30:19, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>It is not interesting.
>>>
>>>It is clear that if the computer is fast enough it can solve chess.
>>>The real question is what to do when you have not computer that is fast enough.
>>
>>Why is that the "real" question?
>
>Computers may be fast enough to solve chess but it is not going to happen in the
>near future and they will not be fast enough to solve every game.
>
>>
>>>The case of 120 move combination already happens in tablebases thanks to people
>>>like nalimov who use a lot of computer time to investigate these endgame and I
>>>do not understand the purpose.
>>
>>Maybe he wants to solve chess? Maybe he'd like to help create better chess
>>programs? Did any thought go through your mind when making these statements?
>
>Why do we need to solve chess.
>If chess is solved by computer programs then I am afraid that computer chess is
>going to die.
>
>I do not think that it is important to help people to create better chess
>programs by hardware and the main thing that is needed for generating the 6
>piece tablebases is big hardware with a lot of memory.
>
>Helping chess programs by making everyone of them perfect is going to destroy
>computer chess.
>
>I believe that it is not going to happen in the next 50 years but I believe that
>getting closer to perfect by making chess program perfect in 6 piece and 7 piece
>positions may reduce the interest in computer chess.
>
>>
>>>I could understand building tablebases for a private program in order to win
>>>a competition but I do not see a reason to waste a lot of hours of computer time
>>>only to give tablebases for free.
>>
>>Again, I'm sure he has a reason or he wouldn't be doing it. Just because you
>>don't see the reason doesn't mean there isn't one. Contrary to what you think,
>>you're not the "all knowing Uri Blass".
>
>Were did I say that I am the all knowing?
>
>>
>>>Helping chess players?
>>>I doubt if it helps much.
>>>
>>>What do chess players earn from it except frustration when they see a mate in
>>>200 in some KRB vs KBN when even after hours of analysis they cannot understand
>>>the idea of the moves?
>>
>>Improvement is gradual. Trying to analyze a mate in 200 is ridiculous and of
>>course no one would try to do that currently. Maybe someone would like to play
>>against a perfect computer to learn how to play a K+N+B vs. K endgame.
>
>This can be solved with no tablebases and programs without tablebases knew a
>long time ago the right techniques.
>
>The big hardware of nalimov is not needed for it.
>
>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I have news for you Uri. Not everyone in the world is interested in the same
>>things that you are. Just because you don't understand why someone else is
>>interested in something why does that make it so bad? You declaring something to
>>be uninteresting doesn't mean anything to anyone but yourself. Other people may
>>find it perfectly interesting.
>>
>>As far as what Eugene is doing, it's not only chess related. The algorithms
>>involved in storing and retrieving that much data are quite clever and could be
>>used for other things in computing.
>
>He does not need to generate the tablebases in order to use the algorithms.
>If the target is other things in computing
>
>>
>>Needless to say it is quite clear you put no thought into your comments. There
>>are plenty of reasons for all of the things that you deemed "pointless". I
>>really don't think ANYONE (besides you) cares whether or not YOU find these
>>things interesting or not, or whether YOU think they have a purpose, because
>>it's easy to see that they do have a purpose, even if it's one you aren't
>>capable of grasping.
>
>I did not say that the tablebases have no purpose.
>I said that I do not understand the purpose of wasting a lot of hours only to
>make them free.
>
>Nalimov does not earn money from the tablebases when other people who sell CD's
>with tablebases earn money.
>
>Uri

I can add that I did not say that I do not understand the fact that there are
people who are interested in the new tablebases(I know that for example
correspondence players may use them to analyze their game)

I only meant to say that generally I doubt if people feel more happy because of
the tablebases.

Uri



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