Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 00:45:52 07/09/02
Go up one level in this thread
On July 08, 2002 at 23:21:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On July 08, 2002 at 14:11:19, Christophe Theron wrote: > >>On July 08, 2002 at 13:27:15, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On July 08, 2002 at 12:48:58, Sune Fischer wrote: >>> >>>>On July 08, 2002 at 11:34:36, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>>I too am a DB fan. Just like Bob. >>>>>> >>>>>>But I actually agree with you here. I don't think DB did anything >>>>>>*spectacular*. >>>>> >>>>>I totally disagree. Their speed _was_ "spectacular". And that was _the_ >>>>>point of Deep Blue, after all. Not the point everyone _wants_ to be the >>>>>point of deep blue, but _the point_ the team developed over 10 years... >>>>> >>>> >>>>Here is a crazy thought, why not simulate DB? >>>>Given all the papers, I think it should be possible to modify Craft to use the >>>>same eval and extensions. We turn off hashing, nullmove, SEE and whatever DB >>>>didn't have. Then we find a slow machine for Tiger and a super fast one for >>>>Crafty, so Crafty (in DB-mode) has a 200 nps fold advantage. >>>> >>>>Ok lot of work, but seems this is the never ending story :) >>>> >>>>-S. >>> >>> >>>This would be great if we had some of the DB guys helping. Unfortunately, >>>while they revealed a lot about various parts of DB, there is no single >>>comprehensive source paper to use as a reference. IE what are those 8,000 >>>unique eval terms in DB (some of those terms actually represent a matrix with >>>multiple values so it is actually more complex than that)? >> >> >> >>Sorry but the "8000" includes every entry of every matrix. > >Not according to the things I have seen written. But it really doesn't matter >to me either way. I don't have anywhere _near_ 8000 terms in my evaluation. >I don't have 1000 unique terms, even counting all the piece/square tables. > > > >> >>It's like saying that a piece square table program is composed of 768 unique >>eval terms (64 squares x 6 piece types x 2 colors). > >Even if that were done, that is only 10%. What about the other 90%? You >have a _lot_ of counting to go to reach 8000... They say in their paper that many terms were not used. Christophe > > >> >>If I count this way, I guess that Chess Tiger must have something like 50000 >>unique eval terms... :-) >> >> >> >> Christophe >> >> >> >> >>> Ditto for some of >>>their search algorithms. They have given lots of 'hints' about things, but >>>significant implementation details are not available. >>> >>>IE something like trying to build a F-1 by looking at it run around the track. >>>There are _significant_ details that are not readily apparent from such >>>observations...
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