Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: What made Deep blue good? What will make programs much better now?

Author: Keith Evans

Date: 10:11:31 07/09/02

Go up one level in this thread


On July 08, 2002 at 23:22:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 08, 2002 at 13:50:18, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On July 08, 2002 at 13:27:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 08, 2002 at 12:48:58, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 08, 2002 at 11:34:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>I too am a DB fan.  Just like Bob.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But I actually agree with you here.  I don't think DB did anything
>>>>>>*spectacular*.
>>>>>
>>>>>I totally disagree.  Their speed _was_ "spectacular".  And that was _the_
>>>>>point of Deep Blue, after all.  Not the point everyone _wants_ to be the
>>>>>point of deep blue, but _the point_ the team developed over 10 years...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here is a crazy thought, why not simulate DB?
>>>>Given all the papers, I think it should be possible to modify Craft to use the
>>>>same eval and extensions. We turn off hashing, nullmove, SEE and whatever DB
>>>>didn't have. Then we find a slow machine for Tiger and a super fast one for
>>>>Crafty, so Crafty (in DB-mode) has a 200 nps fold advantage.
>>>>
>>>>Ok lot of work, but seems this is the never ending story :)
>>>>
>>>>-S.
>>>
>>>
>>>This would be great if we had some of the DB guys helping.  Unfortunately,
>>>while they revealed a lot about various parts of DB, there is no single
>>>comprehensive source paper to use as a reference.  IE what are those 8,000
>>>unique eval terms in DB (some of those terms actually represent a matrix with
>>>multiple values so it is actually more complex than that)?  Ditto for some of
>>>their search algorithms.  They have given lots of 'hints' about things, but
>>>significant implementation details are not available.
>>>
>>>IE something like trying to build a F-1 by looking at it run around the track.
>>>There are _significant_ details that are not readily apparent from such
>>>observations...
>>
>>Ahh, slight unforeseen problem. ;)
>>Maybe you can get a copy of the source, it's not like Hsu has a big use for it
>>anymore, unless he patented it or plans to some day revive the old legend?
>>(he could always edit out the "top secret" parts :)
>>
>>I'm not even sure such a test would settle the discussion, but at least we would
>>have an active open source playing machine to work with.
>>
>>-S.
>
>
>The source would get us the search for the first 2/3 of the plies in the
>tree.  But what about the hardware search.  And the hardware evaluation?
>
>Big chunks are missing.  I don't want to look at circuit schematics to
>try to discern evaluation operations.  :)

I would if I could have access to his design ;-)



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.