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Subject: Re: IM Watson quote relevant to Anand-Rebel, Kasparov-Deep Blue, etc.

Author: blass uri

Date: 08:28:46 08/06/98

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On August 06, 1998 at 08:36:52, Komputer Korner wrote:

>On August 05, 1998 at 22:01:43, Tim Mirabile wrote:
>
>>I found the following quote in a book review by IM John Watson on the TWIC
>>pages.  The full text is at http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/jwatson1.html in a
>>review of recent game collections by Speelman, Anand, and Shirov.
>>
>>> We should realize that Shirov, like Anand but more so, is a primary
>>> representative of the ultra-dynamic modern style. He calls his own style
>>> 'very concrete', which is consistent with his now-renowned powers of
>>> calculation; and makes this fascinating comment:
>>>
>>> 'I have always tried to be not just a tactician--working with a positional
>>> player such as Bagirov and studying hard has helped me to develop my own
>>> strategic understanding, although chess is nowadays so concrete that pure
>>> strategy practically doesn't exist for me.'
>>>
>>> An amazing statement which pretty much sums up what's been happening in chess,
>>> beginning with Kasparov. One could easily imagine Anand, Topalov, Kramnik,
>>> Ivanchuk, Polgar or any number of other top-class players saying the same
>>> thing. Pure strategy may not be dead; but it's been missing in action for 20
>>> years or so, which is not auspicious!"
>>
>>The only problem is that this concrete style, which is so effective against
>>humans, plays right to the strength of current chess programs.  Computer
>>opponents will continue to give the top humans fits until they realize this.
>>
>>But it is not so easy to simply abandon your style, and successfully adopt a new
>>one.  The second Kasparov-Deep Blue match, especially game 2 before the errors,
>>demonstrated this.  To adopt a new style at the same high level would require
>>intense study for a long period, and even then it might not be possible for such
>>a player to achieve the same results against humans as he had with the old
>>style.
>>
>>At this point it is not worth the effort for the top players, because there are
>>no computers in regular high-level tournaments.  But I think it is still
>>possible for even average GMs to successfully adopt a positional style against
>>the microcomputer programs.  This may involve adjusting ones opening choices,
>>and a willingness to pass up tempting tactical continuations in favor of lines
>>involving pure judgement.
>
>While I agree with the above conclusion, there is this to consider. What a GM
>considers strategy and what a computer program considers knowledge are 2 vastly
>different things. All GMs are looking at chess at such a level of strategical
>understanding compared to computers that they the GMs dismiss what we would
>consider strategy as just something beneath them even to talk about. I have
>heard very strong players talk about certain positions this way. "In this
>position and positions like it you don't even consider that. Everyone knows that
>this way is the right way to go. I don't want to hear about this. Look, you go
>here. I go here and now you are in ZUG. This is well known. You can't do this."
>If you were to ask the GM were there any strategical concepts in this position,
>he would look at you with rolled eyes and say No, this is too simple to discuss.
>So don't believe Shirov when he says that there is no strategy in his games. It
>is just that at his level strategy has a whole new meaning. He might mean that
>he hasn't come up with a new concept in quite a while and everything is opening
>study and calculation. He doesn't have to worry about positional play becuase he
>intuitively understands what Kasparov, Karpov, Kramnik and Korchnoi know. He
>waves strategy away with a magic wand because it is part of him like his flesh
>and blood. BUT believe me, if you look at his match against Kramnik you will
>realize that Shirov understands and uses positional concepts far beyond what any
>computer program understands. Besides which his level of opening prep will
>always be far above any micro.

I am not sure about the advantage of GM's in opening preperation
I remember kasparov forgot his opening preperation and lost in a game,
Something like this cannot happen to computer programs.

Uri

> So the Super GM has 2 large advantages over any
>chess computer, which will outweigh the calculation disadvantge for quite a
>while yet. The closer the micros  get to beating the Super GM's, the farther it
>seems they have to go. Of course we are talking about 40/2 chess here where
>blunders don't play a major role.
>--
>Komputer Korner



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