Author: Bruce Moreland
Date: 18:30:26 08/14/98
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On August 14, 1998 at 11:28:14, Thorsten Czub wrote: >On August 14, 1998 at 09:32:09, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >>I get a lot of games with Fritz on ICC, I think. Even on weaker hardware it >>scores well against my program, dramatically better than anything else with the >>possible exception of Junior. > >maybe this has something to do with the fact that fritz and ferret are somehow >similar, but fritz searches deeper. Then Ferret should be blown out by CST, too, and this didn't happen when Chris showed up with it on ICC. But in any case, I don't think Ferret is similar to Fritz. My understanding of Fritz is that it is a root-evaluator using null-move and possibly some other aggressive pruning. Maybe Fritz 5 is different, I do not know. Ferret uses null move, sure, and a little razoring, but no rocket-science pruning. It evaluates at the tips, and it does a lot of stuff that you probably don't think Fritz does. This can describe any number of programs that you wouldn't regard as being similar to Fritz, I think. Do you think that Crafty is similar to Fritz? Ferret is pretty similar to Crafty, because Bob and I talk a lot. >>I don't understand why you think that CST would score so well against Fritz, >but > >I play fritz against all kind of programs. >Tiger, Diep, Eugen, Zarkov, Rebel, etc. > >I cannot reproduce the good results. I see it killing things on the net. >>from my own experiences with Fritz I do not think that the ChessBase autoplayer >>cheats (although I don't agree that the SSDF should use it). > >I have not said it cheats. > >I only say i cannot reproduce the good results. >I can replay the games when somebody posts them, but i get weaker results. >Especially strange draw-bug-games. These draw-bug games end in draw or fritz >loses. I think that part of the problem here is that you say things, then apparently forget that you say them. Start of quote (16486.txt), from 0498.zip: ----------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: only a nice game of c.-chess... From: Thorsten Czub E-mail: mclane@prima.ruhr.de Message Number: 16486 Date: April 04, 1998 at 08:01:38 [snip, also you were quoting Moritz but the header seems to be gone] >4. No independent tester with a Fritz autoplayer (e.g. Enrique, myself, >several SSDF guys) has produced bad results for Fritz. So are they all >cheating? Right. The autoplayer cheats. The people involved have nothing to do with the cheating. They are only OWNERS of machines. THEY do not produce the data, they are only OWNERS of machines. You try to suggest that I call Enrique or you cheaters. In fact I do call ChessBase and their autoplayer the main problem. If you want to show something use the Chrilly Donninger auto232-device. In the moment you use the ChessBase autoplayer you cheat. Do you get this right ?! ----------------------------------------------------------- End of quote. You also made some more ambiguous references to the autoplayer cheating in 16403.txt and 16454.txt (In this one you said either the autoplayer was cheating or Moritz was cheating, but that you weren't going to sort it out). This was all in March and April. I didn't look past 16486 because that post seemed to be pretty clear. In any case, I don't particularly care, other than that you made me doubt my own memory. My statement was that *I* don't think that the autoplayer cheats. bruce
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