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Subject: Re: How, and how well do chess engines attack [& defend vs attacks]?

Author: Mark Young

Date: 14:20:01 08/27/98

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On August 27, 1998 at 13:18:49, blass uri wrote:

>
>On August 27, 1998 at 11:31:46, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On August 27, 1998 at 09:48:10, Robert Henry Durrett wrote:
>>
>>>In the threads "CSTal Win95 needs only 62 seconds to reject Qxg7 , so what ? "
>>>and "So What?", there is a discussion related to this topic.
>>>
>>>In the past, there have been many comments in the chess literature to the effect
>>>that it is easy to win against a chess engine simply by starting an attack.  The
>>>engine, supposedly, cannot see far enough ahead, so gets whipped.
>>>
>>>One would suppose, based on the above assumption, that chess engines would also
>>>be poor attackers, also for the same reason, that they could not see far enough
>>>ahead.
>>>
>>>But, in the above threads, it appears that the engines being discussed [Crafty,
>>>etc.] do find the positional preconditions for attack, [&, presumably, also
>>>sense danger in the same way] and make moves based on the programmer's desire
>>>for his engine to find an attack.
>>>
>>>Presumably, if an engine senses that the preconditions for attack are present,
>>>it's programming might cause it to look deeper into attack lines.
>>>
>>>Similarly, if an engine senses that some but not all of the conditions for
>>>attack are present, then it could be programmed to search for ways to cause the
>>>remaining preconditions to become met.  [This is positional chess!!!]
>>>
>>>For defense, the above two paragraphs apply except that preconditions for an
>>>enemy attack are detected and the engine might be programmed to search for ways
>>>to eliminate the preconditions [also positional chess!!!].
>>>
>>>The above merely speculates on what engines might do.
>>>
>>>So, the question is:   To what extent do existing chess engines do the above?
>>>Are modern chess engines quite good at attack and defense?  If so, what are the
>>>real reasons for that?
>>>
>>>Just curious.
>>
>>I think chess programs are better at defense. The Junior 5.0 Vs GM Yudasin is a
>>good example of this. Junior 5.0 attacked Yudasin’s kingside when there was no
>>positional justification to base an attack.
>
>I am not sure about it.
>black won a pawn but the black king seem to be weak.
>I do not understand the position enough to decide that black is better
>
>if black was better then what was the mistake of black in the game?
>

So you think white was better or equal after Rh5. Ok i will take your word for
it.

>Uri
>
>> This cost Junior 5 a pawn and could
>>of cost Junior 5 the game except for computer programs ability not to get upset
>>or nervous and just play the position. Here the patience of a chess program can
>>do wonders. Junior 5 saw a chance to draw the game through pure calculation and
>>did so. I think defense takes more of a tactical touch and that’s where chess
>>programs are strong. The attack can be much more speculative and that’s where
>>human intuition can be much more of an advantage.



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